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Old 01-10-2010, 04:22 PM   #101
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People, Andrea already explained why Day 1 and 2 were posted in advance, and then he said he'll wait until everyone is ready to proceed further. So let's all cool off, please.

I completed Day 2 this afternoon, and I'm literally amazed by how well this game has aged. For example, the settings and characters are expertly introduced and depicted. The dialogue writing is also incredible; it's definitely beyond anything I've seen in recent years. All the conversations are interesting and fun, even a simple chat with the graveyard fella turns out great.

And the voice acting... wow! I had forgotten how impeccable it was! Gabriel, Grace, Mosely, Malia, Willy, Dr. John, Magentia, they're all totally awesome!
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:32 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadWolf View Post
People, Andrea already explained why Day 1 and 2 were posted in advance, and then he said he'll wait until everyone is ready to proceed further. So let's all cool off, please.
Thanks! I'm so relieved that at least you understood my reasons! Thanks!
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:39 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 View Post
Thanks! I'm so relieved that at least you understood my reasons! Thanks!
It's the least I could do Andrea. After all, I'm sure it must be a lot of work to research all the information required for a community playthrough like this one, like all the cool links you included so far. It offers significant depth to it all. Incidentally, I ended up wishing we'd concentrate more on the experience of the playthrough, rather than its overall pacing.

...

I had another thought on the inspired dialogue writing. I noticed that all the conversations feel unique (even the simple ones with secondary characters) and that Gabriel's dry wit and attitude remain consistent throughout. I sometimes have this feeling when playing today's adventures, but it never seems as good as this game. Grace also remains consistent, even though she was voiced by three different actresses in the series, which is unbelievable.

Here is an example of a typical exchange between Gabriel and Grace that I really love. It's so simple, and yet it gives us all we need to know about these characters:

Spoiler:
Gabriel: Tell me about yourself, Grace.
Grace: Yeah right, Knight.
Gabriel: I mean it!
Grace: What do you wanna know?
Gabriel: How old are you?
Grace: Old enough to know about men like you.


I just... love this game!
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:46 PM   #104
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No, never saw Rocky Horror. I know of its existence, but it predates my own by four years and I don't think I've ever seen it aired on tv here. But to be honest, it doesn't really appeal to me.

I had the same issue with the word "Schattenjäger"!

I have mixed feelings about a topic-centered dialogue tree. I like the basic idea, but I've always felt there should be some kind of visual indication when you've exhausted a topic with a certain character. I hate repetition in replies. A good example of this is "The Dig": during dialogue you see icons of the topics you can discuss and when everything is said, it turns blue.

I've also played "Cruise for a Corpse" with a very similar dialogue tree, but each topic generates only one response ever, so you only have to choose it once.

I love the lip sync in GK, but "Cruise" had different facial expressions for the characters (happy and angry) which added a touch of realism I often miss in GK.
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Old 01-11-2010, 12:01 AM   #105
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I have mixed feelings about a topic-centered dialogue tree. I like the basic idea, but I've always felt there should be some kind of visual indication when you've exhausted a topic with a certain character. I hate repetition in replies. A good example of this is "The Dig": during dialogue you see icons of the topics you can discuss and when everything is said, it turns blue.

I've also played "Cruise for a Corpse" with a very similar dialogue tree, but each topic generates only one response ever, so you only have to choose it once.
QfG4 has dialog options that appear when a subject is revealed and many disappear as they are exhausted.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:28 AM   #106
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Typical! you wait weeks for the playthrough of your favourite game and then your home internet goes down so you can't post all weekend!

I've only re-played through day one so far and cannot help being reminded of some of the reasons I love this game!

Firstly, the characters. One of the criticisms I often have of adventure games is a main character who is unlikeable, or who I do not sympathise with or want to get along side. For me Gabriel is instantly likeable, funny and not too much of a straight clean cut American, like so many other main characters. In short he is more of an "adult" character, not designed to appeal to children, or any particular group, but as a character in himself, with no apologies or concessions made to political correctness or for his own shortcoming and/or failings.

I think one of the reasons I like Gabriel so quickly is the amount we find out about him so early on. His banter with Grace tells us a lot together with meeting his Gran, an old school friend, his local pub landlord and visiting the family grave on the first day we meet him! One of the amazing things is that although we are being fed lots of information about him, mainly through dialogue, it doesn't get boring, being very, very well written and always tinged with humour, even in the more serious bits.

Where Gabriel is laid back, unconventional, humourously sardonic, a dreamer and a bit of a rogue, Grace is the opposite, being upright, straight-laced, caring and practical and this combination works really well! There is a real chemistry between Gabriel and Grace thanks firstly to how well written their characters and dialogs are and secondly how well voice acted they are.

To be honest the voice acting is excellent all accross the board in this game with some serious talent behind the voices. I have heard some people deriding Tim Curry's Gabriel as a really poor New Orleans accent. Not being from that way myself (or from America at all!), this really doesn't matter to me and personally I think Tim Curry does the definitive Gabriel, accent and all!

The characters in general are all excellently written and voice acted and massive kudos goes to Jane Jensen and the actors for embellishing the great story, puzzles etc. in this wonderful way.

Hmmm, I 've been going on for ages already and only really talked about one thing(!) so must quickly say something about downsides to this game. For me, there is only really one and that is the interface. 8 verb-coin actions is a pretty serious amount, and the old "try everything on everything" style of game play takes a while! Having said that, the different responses for trying all the actions on Grace almost make it worthwhile on their own!
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:07 AM   #107
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=I have mixed feelings about a topic-centered dialogue tree. I like the basic idea, but I've always felt there should be some kind of visual indication when you've exhausted a topic with a certain character.
I can easily understand your point on this matter, however I think this is sort of "too easy".

In such a meticoulosly designed game as GK1 is, the dialogues do not need to be exhausted, I think. After you have "tapped the resources" of a character on a particular topic, he/she says so, so it doesn't make sense to inquire further. And if you ask anyway - it is natural and realistic that they get mad and impatient and repeat they don't know anything.

In short, in my opinion such design of dialogues makes them more real.

Little Writer - Malia is the Voodoo Lady! Hahaha, I played Tales of MI recently and the memory is still fresh. Now I sort of expect Guybrysh to take over Malia's body in most unexpected moments and I cannot focus on the game

Intense Degree - In my opinion the "Push" button is completely obsolete; the "Operate" one could successfully replace all of its ~3 times use in the game IMO.

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Old 01-11-2010, 04:09 AM   #108
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Mm, I've never played the GK games with a "try everything on everything" technique. These games are far removed from their cartoony cousins where logic is often thrown out the window and you have to try the silliest things to solve a puzzle. GK to me is synonym for serious adventure gaming where all actions make sense, so much so that I'd almost say that simply behaving as you would yourself in real life is often the way to move forward.

About the dialogue system: I don't mind it when the characters clearly state they don't know anything else and repeat that, but that's not always the case. I'm no dunce, I know when to stop asking questions. But sometimes they give the same, occassionally lenghty, reply without any hint they won't further elaborate on it, and then it sounds a bit weird and unrealistic (something which is all the much apparent in an otherwise very realistic game). I'll report here if I encounter an example during day three.

Actually, Alison Ewing voices the voodoo lady in Tales. It's only Leilani Jones in Curse and Escape.
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Old 01-11-2010, 03:47 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Intense Degree View Post
I think one of the reasons I like Gabriel so quickly is the amount we find out about him so early on. His banter with Grace tells us a lot together with meeting his Gran, an old school friend, his local pub landlord and visiting the family grave on the first day we meet him! One of the amazing things is that although we are being fed lots of information about him, mainly through dialogue, it doesn't get boring, being very, very well written and always tinged with humour, even in the more serious bits.
I agree one billion percent! Even though the story takes a little while to get started, there are plenty of background information to gather and cool characters to meet, which in turn gives you a better taste of Gabriel and what his life is all about.

On a related note, tonight I'm planning to replay the first meeting with Malia at the Gedde mansion. I think it's such a unique scene, and the way she's introduced is so mysterious and intriguing. Some of you mentioned that her voice might be a little too serious or cold, but personally I enjoy talking to her exactly for that; such a tone in her voice gives the impression that there's much more to her than meets the eye.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:28 AM   #110
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Is it OK for everyone if I post Day 3 later today?
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:53 AM   #111
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Is it OK for everyone if I post Day 3 later today?
Ok for me!
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:10 AM   #112
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Is it OK for everyone if I post Day 3 later today?
I didn't even start day 2, so it's perfectly fine!

And on another note, I scored exactly 50 points on Day 1, so I didn't do bad, I guess.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:22 AM   #113
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I'm far ahead of everyone, on accident of course , so I'm fine with it. I'm disappointed in myself that I started to rush through a few chapters, because I was interested in the plot, and I didn't stop and really enjoy it.

Oh, and one puzzle I got stuck on was the clock puzzle...and I didn't even think it through, I just looked at a hint.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:24 AM   #114
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Ready.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:36 AM   #115
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Just give me an hour to cacth up with day 2, post my comments and I am ready for day 3 as well!
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:11 PM   #116
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DAY 3



Drawn to Bacchus's abode, I sought there to conspire.
But it was in the city of the dead that I found my heart's desire
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:33 PM   #117
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Okay, so it took me a little bit more than an hour, but I have finished day 2 also now.

Well, gotta love the game. The rich history of voodoo explained, real world places, along with their history, Jane Jensen really did a lot of research and managed to put in so much of it. I remember after my first playthrough reading about New Orleans and voodoo, and finding out that so much in the game is actually based on truth.

Okay, my experiences so far. First of all, love the poem lines at the beginning. Funny enough it took me a few days after I finished my first playthrough to find out how perfectly those lines fit the day. Now it seems so obvious.

I may have mentioned it before, but day 1 and 2 are not my favorite days. It is like there is so much to see, so much to explore, but what you actually should do seems a bit arbitrary. The goal is not quite clear yet. Especially the puzzle in the attic, I see how it should make sense, but I needed a walkthrough the first time I played it.

Also, it may have been because I sped it up a bit to catch up and so didn't look at everything thoroughly, but it seems more pixelhunt-ish than the first time I played it. But I guess that is mostly due to speeding up and not really looking at everything.

I could now write down a whole essay about the use of labels, but let's not do that. Let's say that I prefer no labels, and in this game, again, I do not miss them. Unless you are of course hurried, but usually, when you explore every tiny detail, who needs them?

I remember from my first playthough that it never occured to me to
Spoiler:
use Gabe's father's sketchbook with the writings on tomb and with the pattern, simply because I thought along the lines of 'that thing is old, the owner is dead, you should not keep on using it. It would spoil the thing (I still think that, but that may as well be my attitude towards collecting old things in their original state)


One thing I still think would be a really logical thing to do, but which the game does not allow you to, is to translate the German letter with the dictionary, so use letter with dictionary. I mean, if you want to know more about Schattenjägers or your family history, translate that letter already! If Gabe's too lazy, then let Grace do the job

On a more random note, a thought I had when playing the game the first time: "I can predict when and how Gabriel will die!" The idea behind that is that his grandfather died when he got hit by a car when his son was 8 years old, and Gabriel's father died when Gabriel was 8 years old, in a car crash. So, following this logic, Gabe will die in a car-related accident when his son will be 8 year

Okay, that last point has just proven that I am getting tired
Won't be able to play tomorrow, but I'll start day 3 thursday. And every day the story and the game will get more and more interesting...
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Old 01-12-2010, 01:56 PM   #118
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In Detail: Dixieland Drug Store

OK, Willy surely isn't the friendliest guy around (admittedly, he even figures in some fan's most-hated characters' lists), but I always appreciated visiting Dixieland Drug Store because of its atmosphere, which is a strange mix between an everyday supermarket and an eeriely exotic witch-doctor's hut. There is plenty to see in the shop, and some of the descriptions/responses are amongst my favorites. For example, have you looked at the garlic? Have you tried to get it? And what about those stranges hanging bags? Have you examined the various jars in the display (particularly the blue and red ones)? And the jars on the back shelf? The two postes? The sign on the counter? The purple candle?

In Detail - Part Two: Napoleon's House

Another wonderfully designed location is the Napoleon's House. Not only there's much to do and see, but also the way the bust and the bottles frame the screen add a cosy, intimate and familiar atmosphere to the place. Of course, taking the time to thoroughly talk with the bartender enhances the feeling. You did talk with him, did you? Have you discovered what he has to say about a certain hapless writer who's also one of his oldest and most affectionate patrons? And while we're at it, have you tried to talk with the couple in the corner? Have you tried to pick up the girl? And what about the lonely drinker by the counter? And then there are Sam and Markus, who are like an old bickering married couple. The chess-table, the bust, the purple bottle, the painting and the soft lightining are also worth examining.

Real-Life Locations: Tulane University

Tulane University was founded in 1834 and has a rich history, from an architectural perspective - with many different influences coloring its buildings, from the old Victorian houses to the high-tech science offices - as well as from the important alumni that consider this athenaeum their alma mater. The University has been featured in many movies - most notably The Pelican Brief -, novels and TV shows (Sex and the City amongst them). Outside from Sins of the Fathers, Tulane also appears in another beloved Sierra's series of adventures... Have you examined the board?

Hey, look who's hosting a conference in a couple of weeks! Pity that Gabriel's investigation would be already over, because it would be nice to see what wise advise this particular octuagenarian would have had for our hero!

Day 3 in the novel

"His father's sketchbook, the painting, Heinz Ritter's poem, his own dreams... For the first time in many years, since the days when he'd played ball by himself in the backyard, Gabriel felt the terrible gaping hole of loss at the absence of his paternal ancestors. What was born in the male Knight line? What secrets had they died without revealing?

Jane Jensen, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, Roc 1997, p. 128
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:17 PM   #119
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Just in case you feel asleep like our stoic Gabriel, here's a nice little synopsis of Hartridge's lesson:

A Voodoo Conference by Prof. Hartridge:

"Voudoun worships a pantheon of spirits, known as Loa [...] Some Loa are the spirits of tribal ancestors. This pantheon is not static: new spirits are born, old spirits are forgotten. [...] Human worshippers are seen as horses, the Loa as the Divine Horsemn. A person being ridden takes on the characteristics of the Loa and becomes, in effect, merely a vessel for the more powerful entity. [...] They believe spirits long for flesh to dance and sing, to make love, to eat and drink. Thus the worshippers offer their own bodies, hoping to please the gods and gain favor. Second, when a Loa possesses the body of a worshipper, Voudoun believers are granted direct physical communion with a god. It is a very intimate and personal deity-worshipper relationship. [...] Voudoun temples are called hounfour. A hounfour has a ritual circle marked by a center pole calle a poteau-mitan. The ritual circle is prepared with a vévé - a pattern of symbols. Each group's vévé is slightly different, consisting of comples symbols that identify their specific Loa. The use of totems, or animal masks and markings, was not uncommon in the original African ceremonies."

Jane Jensen, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, Roc 1997, p. 105 - 108

-------------------------

For further reading:

Haitian Voodoo
and Louisiana Voodoo
Voodoo Pantheon and Mythology
Comprehensive List of Loa
Sexuality and Voodoo

I strongly recommend the trilogy of novels dedicated to Haiti by Madison Smartt Bell: All Souls' Rising, Master of the Crossroads and The Stone That the Builder Refused, which are extremely interesting from an historical perspective and fascinating from a mythological one.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:24 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 View Post
In Detail: Dixieland Drug Store

OK, Willy surely isn't the friendliest guy around (admittedly, he even figures in some fan's most-hated characters' lists), but I always appreciated visiting Dixieland Drug Store because of its atmosphere, which is a strange mix between an everyday supermarket and an eeriely exotic witch-doctor's hut.
I have to agree with this point. Willy, despite being somewhat of a dick, gave the game at this point for me a lot of the intrigue to what was going on in the voodoo scene. I'm not so sure this needs spoilers, but I'll play it safe (as it does give away something about characters involved in voodoo )

Spoiler:
Where Dr. John (sorry if I got the name wrong, been a couple of weeks for me now) is very strong willed in not giving any of this underground scene away, Willy can't help but give away his despise for Gabriel which is really the first chink in the armour of these people. When he lets slip those few words I think I campaigned across all characters I could access to get a translation! I was desperate to get inside the dark world they hid.


So for this reason, Willy was actually one of my favourite characters

Great comments from all! Keep up the good work Andrea.

EDIT: Also, I noticed one of the links for voodoo leads to a site by name of 'Gede'. I hate to sound naive but is there an historical significance with the name? I'm sorry if this has been covered already...
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