[Little Writer]

Wow, looks like I got some catching up to do. Been too engrossed in Prince of Persia

I think I must be about the only one who doesn't like day 9. Not from a storytelling point of view, but simply because of the gameplay. Go around once, pick up everything, go around twice, use everything in the right place, go around thrice (okay, it's only a couple of rooms there but still ...) Also, that last bit had me stumped for a long time due to machine speeds. It only worked when I manually put Gabe on maximum speed (like you could do in the police station) which technically is cheating a bit ...

About the end sequence: I never had a doubt about what really happened. It all made sense to me; except whether or not such a thing is even physically possible!

[KasiaD]

You are not alone... Day 9 is certainly not my favourite.

As for Wolfgang and his suicide - I always supposed it was his own doing not Telelo's, because otherwise that would not make sense at all... If her goal was to avoid loss of the talisman, she would have to prevent Wolfgang's death, not the opposite. The result of it was after all Gabriel's taking it, and that is what she didn't want. Cui bono...

But this whole scene was somehow too dramatic for my taste, by the way.

[Fantasysci5]

I too didn't like Chapter 9 too much. Wandering from room to room to room, I got so mixed up and lost.

[Intense Degree]

It's really interesting to hear the speculation on Wolfgang's death. I've always thought it was suicide because:

1. The previous dialogue. Gabriel has already been told that "Scloss Ritter is yours now" and Gerde is clearly of the opinion that Wolfgang thought he might never return.

2. Wolfgang feels inadequate, the lesser son of greater sires. His life's work seems to have consisted of trying to locate the talisman and thereby restoring the family honour and power. We don't see that much of old Wolfey but I get the impression that this is a dream and a consuming passion with him and suddenly it becomes a possible reality. He doesn't wait for Gabe but heads off to Africa to do what he has to do. Life without the talisman means no family (except Gerde), a crumbling old castle he can't afford and pity/ridicule from the surrounding people. I think that he literally cannot pass up the chance here, even though he himself is too old to wield the power any more. Before he leaves I think he knows he is not coming back and is prepared to sacrifice himself for the family name.

3. Sending Gabriel off to get a "heart" from a zombie is surely just a device to get him out of the way so he can fulfill what he feels to be his destiny...

4. By the sacrifice of a heart the Ritters regain the talisman. Why would Tetelo help them to do that by inducing Wolfgang to make the sacrifice?

The carefully crafted build-up ditched for a bunch of silly mummies! For a start I feel the city hopping from Germany to Benin is way too much Indiana Jones and doesn't fit the until now tight story at all.

And so far I had been enjoying the story as a thriller about the extremes people are willing to go to. This late turn to the supernatural destroyed for me everything that preceded it. Unlike The beast Within by the way, where the supernatural angle was handled more effectively, imo of course.

One of the things I really like about this game is the way it grows. It starts with an author trying to exploit a local story for a book and grows and grows. By this stage Gabriel is fully committed to an ancient battle against evil on the part of his family. If he had not jetted off round the world "Indy style" to do some fighting himself he wouldn't really be in a position to take up his place in a family of Shadow hunters. This is the practical working out of the commitment we saw growing day by day and coming to flower in the initiation ceremony/dream. It shows Gabriel taking up the family mantle in a very practical way and personally, I love it!

[TheWorld]

Originally Posted by M-E

I actually found this part a great example of good storywriting.

Spoiler:

And I mean not only the whole discussion of whether Wolfgang did that himself or not, but primarily the fact that you have only seen the Wolfgang character for a very very short amount of time, but you just feel really bad about him dying. And that's all thanks to the phone calls and letters we've seen and heard from Wolfgang. Great!

Spoiler:

you've made a good point. Wolfgang stays in the background for most of the game but for some reasons you grow attached to him. I think Wolfgang is used very well in GK2 too.

I really love day 9. I liked the arcade sequences in sierra games and the mummies are used in a good way. They bring some tension into the game without being frustrating.
The appearance of Wolfgang is a great moment, and his sacrifice is even better. I'm pretty sure it's a sacrifice because he makes gabriel go away and then you can see in the pictures that he has his heart in his own hand.

[Luna Sevithiainen]

Day 8 was so short. Not that it should be lengthened by more searching references after references, the amount of that in the game is perfect, but it is just a few clicks, and it's done.
I do like how you get a lot of info in this day though. Because of the small bits of book you read, you get loads of info without the day being reduced to reading endless amounts of texts continuously.

I don't know how I would want to see that day lengthened, I just know that it feels...well, short.

Concerning day 9, gotta say I loved it, though I have to agree with Little Writer: especially when you know what to do, the game play is not the best of the game.
That said, when I played this day for the first time, it totally worked for me. I had before playing GK played Scratches, and with me being easily scared anyway, AND primed to being even more scared because of playing Scratches before that, I entered the snake mound late in the evening, felt the atmosphere, heard the comments of the narrator, and decided to continue playing the next day, in broad daylight
So yeah, for me, this part worked great with atmosphere.
Also, I remember liking the puzzle in the snake mound ring. It wasn't completely obvious, so it felt as an accomplishment when I found it out.

And of course, me being completely in love with the suspense of being in mortal peril, especially when it is timed (if not too tightly, which isn't the case here, luckily I never experienced the speed bug), I loved the mummies!

As for the second part of that day

Spoiler:

The moment I saw Wolfgang walking the way he did, (slumping if that is the right word), I just knew something would happen to him. I liked how the game told you that he was going to die, even far before it would tell how. It gave a sense of 'Aaah! No Don't let him end up dead, he has so much to tell Gabriel! But I have no clue how to prevent it from happening, hell, I don't even kow how he will die, but he will die'. It gives kind of a desperate feeling, which I really like. That is great story telling.

As for Wolfgang's death, it never occured to me that he did it under Tetelo's influence, although having heard that some of you think that, it would make sense. The great thing about a playthrough: you hear explanations you've never thought of yourself!
However, I'll stick to the thought that he did it himself, although, like HandsFree said, it just coincides too much with the cutting of the mummy, so my old thought was that Wolfgang knew he would die as soon as Gabe would cut the mummy's heart out, but he knew that that would happen and that he had to die, so he kind of did it himself by telling Gabriel to set it in motion, so to speak. I also think that because Wolfgang's heart seems to explode out of him, which seemed a bit too supernatural to me to be just simple suicide.

[inm8#2]

There's a funny little animation in Day 9. If you're playing with high speed, it happens

Spoiler:

after Gabriel and Wolfgang place the second bar under the lid but it still doesn't come off. Gabriel says, "Why won't the damn lid open?" or something like that, and

his arms flail up and down really fast when he says that. Something I always noticed and enjoyed. Anyone else see it?

[Fantasysci5]

Luna-I agree that

Spoiler:

the suicide felt more supernatural to me, although I do agree it's suicide. And I also felt like Wolfgang was going to die long before he actually did.

[rottford]

I take it back! Of course, it must have

Spoiler:

been by free will that Wolfgang tore out his heart. As an earlier post stated, Tetelo wouldn't have influenced him -- she would've been shooting herself in the foot by getting them closer to the talisman. Might I add that if Tetelo wanted to stop them, she would've killed Gabriel, not Wolfgang. Then again, it seems like Tetelo also was fixing for a confrontation with Gabriel, the last in the line...

I also want to add that one thing GK2 did that I wished would've been done in GK1 (to flesh out the Schattenjager history),

Spoiler:

was to let the player actually READ the the Schattenjager diaries. I did appreciate the narrator quickening the pace by summarizing the gist of what Gunter's diary said. However, I much more liked how the player was drawn into hundreds of years of Schattenjager history by being able to read the diaries in GK2.

Although I still don't understand why Germans would write their diaries in English...

[CoyoteAG]

Originally Posted by Intense Degree

4. By the sacrifice of a heart the Ritter's regain the talisman. Why would Tetelo help them to do that by inducing Wolfgang to make the sacrifice?

I think that this is a key point. Tetelo is too smart to kill an old man which would let Gabriel into the inner sanctum and access to the talisman.

[Fien]

I’ve been awfully quiet but I love Gabe and Gracie, this playthrough, Andrea’s info and the discussion. I don’t remember many details from the first time I played GK1. I was deeply into my beloved 1st-person FMV, which was a much needed change from all the classic 3rd-person dialogue-inventory adventures I’d already played and I thought GK1 was an okay game with quite a few flaws, nothing special. Remarkable, isn’t it. I have had a complete change of heart.

Other people have covered a lot of ground, so I’ll just mention a few things I like especially. The richness of the game, so many things to interact with. The realistic dialogues, the humor, the atmosphere, even though the mumbo jumbo and voodoo aspects of the story do not appeal to me. The voiceacting, especially Tim Curry. (He was also great as the villain in Toonstruck.) The way each day begins and ends: Grace locking up, the newspaper boy in the morning, etcetera. I sat there smiling every time... ah, here comes the ritual... waiting for the small variations and new developments.

Now, there are also the flaws I do not like. Yeah, sorry about that. The interface is a real pain, a legacy of the good old text adventures, where the difference between open, use, get actually made sense.

Some of the puzzles are terribly unfair. I’m glad I’m not the only one who had problems with the clock. Gabe picks up a random book and reads some poem about three dragons he happens to like for no good reason. Why should that be relevant to a clock in granny’s attic?? The player is supposed to connect it to daddy’s painting of three snakes. Sheesh. And by the time I’d found the clock, I’d forgotten Grace’s casual comment about snakes and dragons, which is obscure as hell anyway.

Same goes for the sekey thingie and writing a message on the tomb. Gabe has a dream about a coffin that he is too small for, but we never get to see the sekey properly and if there are other clues for putting the tracker in the coffin I missed them completely.

And then Day Seven jogged my memory and it came back to me how annoyed and disappointed I’d been with the game the first time. An inscription below the lion’s head? I don’t blame myself for overlooking it! Two or three white pixels indicating a salt shaker next to Gerde? Missed that one too. Why do I need salt anyway? No salt in the pics, no salt in the poem. Sloppy puzzles. The vacuum was a fun addition but the game loses some of its intensity and immersiveness in the chapters 7, 8 and 9. For instance, Gabe was emotional over Crash’s death (great scene, both the writing and the voiceacting) but he hardly flinches when he discovers the body of his old friend in the crypt.

[Fien]

By the way, I tried an Easter Egg mentioned elsewhere, but it didn't work.

At the start of "Day 8" when you leave Schloss Ritter in the car, hold down the space bar as soon as this scene appears. The vehicle will have an unfortunate "mishap". By the way, make sure you save your game before you do this, as this particular easter egg will cause the game to end prematurely, you fiend!

Anybody else tried it? I'm dying to know what happens.

[AndreaDraco83]

I knew that this was supposed to happen on Day 7, when you get to the Schloss, but unfortunately I wasn never able to reproduce it either

Great comments, Fien, and the amusing morning routine is one of the things I like the most in this adventure, as well as Gabe and Gracie's banter!

[HandsFree]

I didn't know about that easter egg, but I tried and...

[Denaron]

Originally Posted by HandsFree

I didn't know about that easter egg, but I tried and...

Hahaha, it worked for me too. I wonder if there are more easter eggs like that in the game.

[Sughly]

Originally Posted by Fien

I’m glad I’m not the only one who had problems with the clock. Gabe picks up a random book and reads some poem about three dragons he happens to like for no good reason. Why should that be relevant to a clock in granny’s attic?? The player is supposed to connect it to daddy’s painting of three snakes. Sheesh. And by the time I’d found the clock, I’d forgotten Grace’s casual comment about snakes and dragons, which is obscure as hell anyway.

Haha you made me feel a lot less stupid, so thanks. I felt like I was just about alone on this one.

Originally Posted by Fien

For instance, Gabe was emotional over Crash’s death (great scene, both the writing and the voiceacting) but he hardly flinches when he discovers the body of his old friend in the crypt.

Again I would agree, I've mentioned before some incongruities in that emotional area (though people have their reasons which is fair enough). For myself though I would've liked, as you put it, similar treatment to these scenes that was given to Crash for example.

I'm not bashing the game though, still love it . Just a few little nagging tidbits...

[rottford]

My apologies if this was said earlier. (I joined in rather late.) One of the only things I dislike about the game (which are very minor compared to the things I LIKE about it) is the number of icons you have to click through before landing on the right one to use on an object. Honestly, I think the hand icon could've done the job of the cogwheels icon ("use") and the door icon ("open door"). This might be the first and only Sierra game where I've actually used the bar at the top of the screen to select an icon (especially in reflex-check scenes such as the snake in the Voodoo Museum)!

I do like the difference between the question mark and exclamation-point icons, though. Much more humorous dialogue seems to erupt when I use the exclamation point

[Fien]

Hey, thanks for posting those pics, Hands Free! I tried again several times but nothing doing.

Sughly, I probably sound too critical, but I'm very happy I rediscovered Sins of the Fathers. It's an intelligent game, it's just that all three GK games (and many others) suffer from sometimes bad puzzle design. Doing things just because you can, without understanding what purpose they serve. Like buying the mask.

[AndreaDraco83]

Will tomorrow be a good day to proceed with Day 10 and thus end the playthrough?

[Denaron]

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

Will tomorrow be a good day to proceed with Day 10 and thus end the playthrough?

Absolutely!

I mean, it's ok by me.