Adventure Gamers - Forums

Karlok - 31 January 2014 10:36 AM

noknowncure - 31 January 2014 10:20 AM

No, the logic of that reading would be that she’s rejecting the societal expectations foist upon her and refusing to conform to the way her village expect women to be.

I agree, but that is something completely different and does not follow from the “sexual awakening” metaphor which ABN decided the feast was. Now I’m sure ABN will drop by to patiently explain that stupid little me doesn’t understand what “sexual awakening” means. I’m probably way too young to grasp it all.

PS: Which brings me to that snake. I’m sure it symbolizes Something Very Important, but I’m confused, so many things qualify! The Biblical snake, as in Good and Evil. Fertility perhaps? Poison? Or simply ssssexxxxx. But after Vella’s visit to cloud land and its flyweight guru I’m thinking of the Kundalini snake. Red and yellow, the colors of the lower chakra’s and we all know what those are. Both enlightenment and sexual energy. Perfect! Strangulation, fainting, lumberjack coming to the rescue.

But growing up, adolescence and - in Vella’s case - becoming a woman are all linked to sexual awakening. Expectation to dress in a particular, alluring way in order to attract attention… doesn’t seem unreasonable to extend the metaphor to include sex.

Of course, I can’t speak for ABN, I’m just thinking what they might mean.

maladroid - 31 January 2014 11:24 AM

Hmm. Well, carrying that analogy even further, ssssexxx is too much for her at this point in life, so she manages to get out of that tough spot just by blowing (into a tuba)

You know, that makes perfect sense. How can this filth of a game not have an “18+” rating?

Karlok - 31 January 2014 10:36 AM

noknowncure - 31 January 2014 10:20 AM

No, the logic of that reading would be that she’s rejecting the societal expectations foist upon her and refusing to conform to the way her village expect women to be.

I agree, but that is something completely different and does not follow from the “sexual awakening” metaphor which ABN decided the feast was. Now I’m sure ABN will drop by to patiently explain that stupid little me doesn’t understand what “sexual awakening” means. I’m probably way too young to grasp it all.

I don’t know what the hell your problem is, but the game is pretty explicit about playing the Maidens’ Feasts as a dating/prom/wedding satire. [spoiler]In the competition to get picked, all the tricks are stereotypical seduction techniques: beautiful dresses, being the right weight, using the right perfume, etc. The girls in Shellmound even talk about how “dreamy” Mog Chothra is, and refer to “him” by pet names, like some schoolgirl crush. (I don’t think it’s coincidental that they’re literally trying to hook him, either.)[/spoiler] Plus, viewed from the other side, Marek talks about how important it is to have a 14-year-old boy do the actual picking of the maidens, since boys that age “have an instinct for it.” I mean, the game is not subtle about it.

This also ties into the “rejecting societal expectations” theme, since the expectation in this case is to sit still, look pretty and get eaten, i.e. married. It’s taking the piss out of the “One Day My Prince Will Come” passive princess ideal. Of course, as previously mentioned, it is just one metaphor the MF represents, but it’s probably the main or at least most obvious one.

Karlok - 31 January 2014 11:31 AM

Really? In my playthrough she faints, falls to the ground and is rescued by the lumberjack.

By the way, Schafer posted at the DF forums:
The tone of the Maidens Feast was inspired by Shirley Jackson’s short story The Lottery, which for some reason you can read for free here: http://sites.middlebury.edu/individualandthesociety/files/2010/09/jackson_lottery.pdf

EDIT: I finished reading the story. Nice one.

I read that in a Short Story class I took in college. Very good short story.

Doom - 03 February 2014 02:06 PM

I will answer a couple of old posts if you don’t mind. I will try to stay on topic this time and not bitching around

Fair enough…then I’ll try & do the same

Doom - 29 January 2014 06:54 PM

I was talking about the things we WERE showed. That wolf can be anything - a rebel, a computer projection, Marek, Shay, a traitor, one of the maidens - we can’t tell! There’s no indication yet…a good story would’ve given _some_ indication in which direction we should move. Here we are simply left with questions without answers.

But at the very least, wasn’t it obvious from the start that everything Marek said was questionable? Hence your statement that:

Doom - 29 January 2014 06:54 PM

it quickly turned into usual conspiracy, totalitarians vs rebels. That’s why I say themes are underdeveloped IN THE FIRST PART (for sensitive people)).

would seem to me an extremely misguided interpretation. I’d say that THE FIRST PART was about growing up, independence, breaking free of a sociey’s expectations, and about manipulation and trust. All at the surface level at least. It really is beyond me how you can say it was about totalitarians Vs rebels.

I do agree with “after a first nap” that the character development of Vella could have been done clearer and better - think his analysis on some of the writing there is pretty much spot on.

Doom - 03 February 2014 02:06 PM

That’s absolutely true. And that’s what I meant by “adult cartoon/movie/game suitable for kids”. All Schafer’s games are suitable for kids. And yet they are adult material! You realise there is more to them as you grow up. That was the beauty of his games.

So if I understand your contention correctly, you don’t think there’s anything in Broken Age that won’t register for children? Nothing that’s subtle or below the surface so that they’ll realize as they grow up that there’s more to it than they initially understood?

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.

That’s religion. Bible contains a great number of fictional stories, and one can say the exact same thing about them: stories for all ages, even if they contain violence and religious subtext. That’s why I don’t find it shocking in context of a game. Then again, a lot of people are raised out of religious/fairy tale context today.

I’m not sure where you’re going with this, or why you keep going on about whether it’s “shocking”. (I also don’t think Bible stories are particularly “for all ages”: it’s more that people didn’t use to give so much of a damn about targeting stories for kids. Certainly lots of kids find Bible study incredibly dull most of the time.)

Could we maybe just put away this whole subtopic along with the “everything about Broken Age is childish” argument?

Doom - 03 February 2014 02:06 PM

“usual conspiracy, totalitarians vs rebels”? That seems to assume that Marek is telling the truth, which I find very hard to believe in the context of what’s revealed in the ending. Plus, did you really miss that that whole thing is a continuation of the same theme, representing teenage rebellion?

No-no, I didn’t miss that. I was talking about the things we WERE showed. That wolf can be anything - a rebel, a computer projection, Marek, Shay, a traitor, one of the maidens - we can’t tell! There’s no indication yet.

I think we have pretty clear indications that the “usual conspiracy, totalitarians vs rebels” is not the whole story, if it’s even part of the story at all. (Like DaveyB I find that it doesn’t come close to summing up the story as I experienced it. I assume you’re referring to Marek’s whole spiel that his and Shay’s mission was to save victims of some oppressive regime, but that was (1) a pretty minor part of the story, and (2) a lie.)

Doom - 03 February 2014 02:06 PM

See above. It’s hard to tell anything at this point, and your version of what happened would be as good as mine. But even at this point, a good story would’ve given _some_ indication in which direction we should move. Here we are simply left with questions without answers.

This sounds like a matter of personal taste. I feel like we’ve learned a lot: what Mog Chothra is, the context of Shay living alone on that ship, how the two worlds fit together, about the historical background (through Alex) and about Operation Dandelion, some hints about what happens to the maidens, etc. The fact that all the answers only raise more questions and that we can’t quite figure out how it all fits together is exactly the way I like it halfway through the story. I mean, at the halfway point of Resonance you still don’t know what Antevorta is, Ed’s role, or Anna’s parentage (maybe; I think it’s revealed around the halfway mark)); most of the big reveals come later in the game.

Keeping players guessing for most of the game just seems like good storytelling to me.

(I should say I enjoy the discussion much more like this. You would have liked some more definite answers at this point in the story? Fair enough. I don’t feel the same way, but it’s a valid perspective, not the kind of outrageous sweeping assertion the Broken Age threads have been full of in the past.)

Karlok - 04 February 2014 08:47 AM

DaveyB - 04 February 2014 02:12 AM

...would seem to me an extremely misguided interpretation.

Misguided? Even extremely misguided? Why is your opinion so much better than other people’s view of the game?

Help me out where I said that. But it’s a rare person who has an opinion they think is wrong and that someone else has a better one lol. Surely in that case your opinion changes?

Karlok - 04 February 2014 08:47 AM

Vella doesn’t have the choice NOT to participate.

I guess you have evidence for that? I didn’t see any coercion, purely the society’s norms and expectations. All other contestents seemed willing & held the same beliefs as the society in general. Vella and her grandfather were the obvious two exceptions. I don’t remember Vella being threatened with anything when she fought back, purely the statement (from the old woman I think) of what the consequences for the people of sugar bunting would be.

It really is beyond me how you can say it was about totalitarians Vs rebels.

Karlok - 04 February 2014 08:47 AM

Well, it’s certainly not beyond me.That Meriloft comes dangerously close to a totalitarian society.

Apart from the fact that Meriloft is only one section of the game (maybe 15% in total), and is for me quite a bit short of totalitarianism, for it to be totalitarians Vs rebels there needs to be some…you know…rebels? More evidence that the first part is a “usual conspiracy, totalitarians Vs rebels” please?

Karlok - 04 February 2014 08:47 AM

But it is beyond me what Schafer had in mind when he dropped Vella out of the blue in a cult after her rebellious escape from Mog Chothra. It’s not like most teenage girls end up in a cult when they refuse to conform to your “society’s expections”.

Apart from the fact that I see no relevance in your statement whatsoever (unless you believe the whole story is an allegory. I certainly never suggested that), I think you need to read up on where cults generally recruit from. Studies indicate the profile is typically from young people who lack roots in society, don’t quite fit in etc. Seems to fit quite well to Vella actually.