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broken age initial thoughts
Calling my opinion “irrelevant” is meeting it with counterarguments?
If we’re discussing one thing, and you bring up – as if it was an argument – an unrelated point, then calling it irrelevant to what we’re discussing is a counterargument, yes.
I’ve noticed that you tried several times to get us to post about the things YOU want to discuss, but this thread is meant for people who want to share their initial thoughts. I’m one of them. Why should I only be allowed to post things related to what other people have said? It was also perfectly clear that particular part of my post was about what Schafer had in mind, not you or DaveyB.
People can of course discuss whatever they like, but it’s a question of context. In the context of your post, talking about whether Vella is the kind of person who would end up in a cult reads as either an argument for why the main conflict of the game is “totalitarians vs. rebels” or as a complete non sequitur.
If you or I want to raise another subject and don’t want other people to see it as part of an ongoing discussion, maybe we shouldn’t write it as a reply to a previous post, in the same paragraph as we make other counterarguments? Or at least put in a “That reminds me…” or “On a different topic…” or something.
And that’s not a “you must discuss things my way” rule, but sincere advice for how to avoid the kind of response you apparently resented.
Your scan must have missed the part where I said: I’m not taking this lying down after the undeserved flack I got from fanboys who wanted to express their contempt for me when I posted about my disappointment in Schafer. That was obviously another thread about BA. You must remember that discussion about Schafer’s financial mismanagement, you took part in it.
You’re right, I missed that you meant something from a different thread. I remember the thread, but I don’t remember who said what, and with the poor search/browse capabilities of this forum system, I’m not about to dig through the whole thing again.
(“I’m not sure if you’re being deliberately obtuse” is not a personal attack IMO, nor is “what the hell is your problem?” in response to unprovoked aggression). Did see several personal attacks by you…
You’re applying double standards. In your previous post you made it look like someone said “If you see any subtext, allusion or metaphor in the game, you’re a delusional, pompous fool.” Quotation marks and all. Nobody said that. It’s YOUR interpretation of what someone said. So you have no leg to stand on when MY interpretation of DaveyB’s words is: “either you’re stupid or you’re pretending to be stupid to make us look stupid.”
Actually, I specifically stated that I was paraphrasing, so I feel I’m standing pretty securely. It’s not really a double standard either: I accept that you feel you were personally attacked, but I don’t agree with your perception (at least with respect to this thread). Then again, Doom doesn’t seem to agree with what struck me as being a personal attack either, so sure – I guess it goes both ways.
Thanks for your very reasonable reply to my post.
If you or I want to raise another subject and don’t want other people to see it as part of an ongoing discussion, maybe we shouldn’t write it as a reply to a previous post, in the same paragraph as we make other counterarguments? Or at least put in a “That reminds me…” or “On a different topic…” or something.
And that’s not a “you must discuss things my way” rule, but sincere advice for how to avoid the kind of response you apparently resented.
Okay, I will try to remember that.
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
That’s what you get for being Schafer
Some truth to that lol.
Well, these particular quotes pretty much sum up my feelings:...
Where is the first quote?!? No doubt it’s there as it took me some time to find the 2nd one too lol. But I can’t find it! The third one (“Schafer’s script is a gem, funny but in a gentler and more heartfelt way than his earliest adventure games.”) hardly represents your view, does it? Nor the other one I quoted. So how can you say that the “Eurogamer review that repeats everything I said almost word by word.”?
Oh, I agree with you on all your points. I was talking only about the quality of writing itself - dialogues and the whole presentation. Compared to, say, Daedalic adventures it feels much more professional and polished.
I also agree with Danaroth (to an extent at least, even if I think it’s a bit harsh) but then I wouldn’t say Tim Schafer’s ever gone for the depth of story line involved in a Jane Jensen or Ragnar Tørnquist game. That was exactly my point when I said I couldn’t see that BA was any more childish than Full Throttle or Monkey Island. But I nonetheless find the combination of interesting story, clever dialogue & light humour (plus the production values) works to deliver a very enjoyable game, even if the puzzle solutions could have been less signposted. With Edna as something of an exception, I can’t say I’m a fan at all of any of the Daedalic games I’ve played, so certainly agree with Doom there.
I don’t quite see how it qualifies as a personal attack,
It came across to me as one (hence my reply 
) as it means that anyone who does like it likes games with writing (in your opinion) suited to a 2-year-old. Infantile is quite a lot stronger than childish. Hence there was a discussion between you & Nap re books, TV etc for children which might also be suitable for adults…but there certainly hasn’t been a similar discussion re books for infants . You see what I mean?
@ Karlok: Bye. Find someone else to pick a fight with. You’ll manage it I’m sure.
Where is the first quote?!? No doubt it’s there as it took me some time to find the 2nd one too lol. But I can’t find it!
Eh, it’s right there in the beginning, the 2nd paragraph %)
The third one (“Schafer’s script is a gem, funny but in a gentler and more heartfelt way than his earliest adventure games.”) hardly represents your view, does it? Nor the other one I quoted. So how can you say that the “Eurogamer review that repeats everything I said almost word by word.”?
You ignore the ending again: “There’s little sarcasm or irony here”. This is exactly what I was talking about. Of course, I didn’t mean it LITERALLY quotes me word by word. The author seems to be more generous to the game, that’s true 
I wouldn’t say Tim Schafer’s ever gone for the depth of story line involved in a Jane Jensen or Ragnar Tørnquist game. That was exactly my point when I said I couldn’t see that BA was any more childish than Full Throttle or Monkey Island.
Personally I don’t like Tornquist’s fiction and I find Grim Fandango or Psychonauts more meaningful than his games. But, again, in case of MI and Full Throttle it’s the style of writing that matters. I thought it was unnecessarily simplified in Broken Age, like Tim was afraid that modern players wouldn’t understand him if he didn’t make dialogues and jokes as clear and in-your-face as possible.
It came across to me as one (hence my reply
I was told that “Provided you can back up what you gather from any story, with convincing examples and comparisons, your reading is just as valid an interpretation as anyone else’s, including the creator”, which seemed strange to me, because there’s little to be gathered from the story in Broken Age. Not that it’s suited to a 2-year-old, there’s just too little of it, with too many black spots. Underdeveloped. Yet people started building global theories of symbolism, linking me to them and then saying I’m too narrow-minded because I didn’t take them for granted
PC means personal computer
Eh, it’s right there in the beginning, the 2nd paragraph %)
Ok, finally got it lol. I think if you hadn’t said 2nd paragraph I would have continually missed it!
You ignore the ending again: “There’s little sarcasm or irony here”. This is exactly what I was talking about. Of course, I didn’t mean it LITERALLY quotes me word by word. The author seems to be more generous to the game, that’s true
A lot more. The phrase “the script is a gem” and “two strong story concepts” don’t exactly seem to fit with your views . There was nothing in your previous posts to indicate your problem was with lack of sarcasm/irony - and so to say it “repeats everything I said almost word by word” is rather pushing things to say the least. Your other two quotes, considering the rest of the article, relate much more to the lack of challenge than anything to do with the writing I’d say.
Personally I don’t like Tornquist’s fiction
Another point where we’ll have to agree to differ .
I was told that “Provided you can back up what you gather from any story, with convincing examples and comparisons, your reading is just as valid an interpretation as anyone else’s, including the creator”, which seemed strange to me, because there’s little to be gathered from the story in Broken Age. Not that it’s suited to a 2-year-old, there’s just too little of it, with too many black spots. Underdeveloped. Yet people started building global theories of symbolism, linking me to them and then saying I’m too narrow-minded because I didn’t take them for granted
Fair enough and I can see where you’re coming from…and I don’t even fully disagree with you (even if I don’t 100% agree either ). But don’t you agree then that, if you don’t think the story is suited to a 2-year-old, then the word “infantile” isn’t the right one to use as that’s what it means. (Or if anything even younger).
Initial thoughts? Well, it’s disappointing that’s for sure. I didn’t expect much although I did expect a classic adventure, which I don’t think this is. It feels closer to Machinarium than Monkey Island - you just walk around clicking on things. But Machinarium/Botanicula were highly entertaining - Broken Age isn’t. More than that, it feels almost pretentious, which is highly unusual for a Schafer game. But I’m only halfway through the game so I won’t say more until I’m finished. I’m hoping Shay’s story is the weaker of the two.
Not enough challenge.
I want fun, difficult riddles, exploration and to feel a sense of accomplishment when I solve puzzles.
I get little of that from this game.
But I do find the gameplay experience to be pleasant, and the game itself is attractive and polished.
Would I want to play this over and over, as I have wanted to with other games? Probably not, but I would still consider the game mostly successful.
Oscar mentions that sometimes the game feels pretentious. That’s also something I noticed.
Oscar mentions that sometimes the game feels pretentious. That’s also something I noticed.
It’s not just the game but everything surrounding the game, starting from their very first video. From what I understand, their idea was that classic point ‘n click adventure games had died and Double Fine was going to come in and heroically rescue them, if we paid them enough (twice). Instead they create a game which doesn’t even come close to the best adventures of the last decade. It’s pretty lazy frankly, as if they felt they didn’t have to try and we’d be delighted with anything they put out just because it’s by some of the old Lucasarts guys.
With The Cave and now Broken Age I almost feel adventure games have passed Schafer and Gilbert by. No Tim, adventure games are not a lost art, you’re not a god, and not everything you touch turns to gold. We’re doing fine without you.
Putting words into Tim’s mouth much?
Putting words into Tim’s mouth much?
Don’t you understand? It didn’t live up to over-inflated expectations, therefor Tim is a skilless hack who’s lost touch with the audience and succumbed to his own ego.
Orrrrrrr, Tim has a better idea of what the audience actually is then most people here.
Adventure Gamer Since 1992
Putting words into Tim’s mouth much?
Don’t you understand? It didn’t live up to over-inflated expectations, therefor Tim is a skilless hack who’s lost touch with the audience and succumbed to his own ego.
Orrrrrrr, Tim has a better idea of what the audience actually is then most people here.
Were they really overinflated expectations?
Double Fine pretty much promised a classical point and click adventure game, From their Kickstarter page, “Over a six-to-eight month period, a small team under Tim Schafer’s supervision will develop Double Fine’s next game, a classic point-and-click adventure. Where it goes from there will unfold in real time for all the backers to see.” This is then followed by an image from Day of the Tentacle.
Not to say Broken Age is not a good game, but if people were expecting what was promised then I think it reasonable the delivered game didn’t live up to the expectation that was set.
Putting words into Tim’s mouth much?
Don’t you understand? It didn’t live up to over-inflated expectations, therefor Tim is a skilless hack who’s lost touch with the audience and succumbed to his own ego.
Who’s putting words in whose mouth now?
Orrrrrrr, Tim has a better idea of what the audience actually is then most people here.
So who is the audience? People who didn’t know adventure games were still alive after Ron & Tim left the scene, and so bought Tim’s schtick about them being a “lost art” (his own words)?
It’s not just the game but everything surrounding the game, starting from their very first video. From what I understand, their idea was that classic point ‘n click adventure games had died and Double Fine was going to come in and heroically rescue them, if we paid them enough (twice). Instead they create a game which doesn’t even come close to the best adventures of the last decade. It’s pretty lazy frankly, as if they felt they didn’t have to try and we’d be delighted with anything they put out just because it’s by some of the old Lucasarts guys.
I totally agree with this.
Also, someone on here posted recent Schafer quotes in which he sounds dismissive when referring to more hardcore adventure gamers, saying that Broken Age would be better received once you get “outside” that hardcore group. That irked me and made me question who exactly he’s making the game for. Who does he think were the people most motivated to donate to his Kickstarter?
Orrrrrrr, Tim has a better idea of what the audience actually is then most people here.
The game hasn’t been a huge sales success so far. And it’s not like he lacked publicity for the game. So, I’m not sure he has his finger on the pulse of the adventure gaming community quite as well as you think he does.
Classic point and click refers to the type of 2D adventure game, not that it would become an instant classic.
Also, the fact that they’re making a documentary about it entails that you will see every single emotion associated with the whole game process. Of course the developers want that people to like their game, and are less enthusiastic about people with negative comments. As other developers don’t have a documentary about them, you just don’t see those moments when they hate negative reviews. I think it’s naive to think Schafer and Double Fine’s reaction to the negative reviews is unique.
To me the documentary is already worth all my pledge money, the game is just a bonus. Broken Age is not the miracle i was hoping for, but enjoyable anyway.
Max: Right! We’ll travel through this dimensional portal on the top of the bar!
Sam: That’s spilled beer, rockhead.
Max: Oh in that case ...
The game hasn’t been a huge sales success so far. And it’s not like he lacked publicity for the game. So, I’m not sure he has his finger on the pulse of the adventure gaming community quite as well as you think he does.
I doubt any of the old adventure designers really do. They all have been out of the game for so long, that the whole gamer culture has changed. They try to adjust the old formula, but because they haven’t done it for ages it’s difficult.
What comes to sales numbers it’s pretty telling that Broken Age is among the better sellers in the recent Kickstarter adventure boom. I doubt Moebius manages to make a even a fraction of the sales Broken Age or Broken Sword have.
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