[Pyke]

Incredible!

[Frogacuda]

Originally Posted by Oscar

I would have liked some details on what they had in mind other than just a 'point and click adventure'.

I don't. Because this isn't really about that.

1) It legitimizes the market demand for adventure games in a very public and open way, distanced from all other possible factors. These are people saying "I want an adventure game, BECAUSE it's an adventure game, and no other reason." Think of all the times Double Fine was probably turned down by publishers on an adventure game pitch over the years. This proves them wrong.

2) This is a passion project, it's about fans gathering to say they want Tim to make the game that Tim wants to make. It's showing that we value the creative freedom of our artists.

If the pitch was a specific game, it would weaken those two points.

[Frogacuda]

Originally Posted by Pyke

When looking at a business model, spending $1 to make $1 isn't a good plan. The idea is to spend 50c to make $1. With the 'fund the entire project and give away your product' approach, you run the risk of not actually making any money.

Other than paying their salaries for the years they spent making them, how much do you really think Double Fine has ever made on a game after it came out? I

'll give you a hint: You probably have more money in your pocket right now.

That's how the game industry works. Unless your game is a big hit, you as a developer don't usually see a dime after the initial contract.

[Frogacuda]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Seeing as the videos are for the people who pledged (in other words, people who already bought the game), it's not much of a publicity stunt. Sort of like preaching to the choir. Sure, the videos will undoubtedly be leaked, and yes, it's ultimately done in the name of selling a game, but all the best marketing vehicles are win-win.

I'm not sure this is the case. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked if the plan for the game arose out of interest in doing a film. They'd need a project that can be filmed in 6 months or so, not the usual 2+ years of a full game, and they'd need one that won't be encumbered by publisher involvement if they hope to keep the film honest.

Think about it: $300,000 is obscenely small. They could have found some small German publisher to front that if that was REALLY the issue.

But of course, this has grown into something much bigger, and that's a very good thing.

[inm8#2]

[inm8#2]

[[ben]]

Glad to see how much money they have pledged so far!

However, in Tim's updated comment on the projects page he says that they now have more money they could put in to that documentary. That they can make a original soundtrack just for the documentary.. I think that is a waste to be honest. Do not get me wrong, the whole documentary thing sounds interesting, but it does not need its own original soundtrack.. Use music from the game instead.
I think they should put as much of the money as possible into the actual game. Making it as good as they can.

In short, I do not really think that the documentary needs to be any more "advanced" than what they had planned for with the 100.000$ budget.

[Wolzal]

Originally Posted by Frogacuda

1) It legitimizes the market demand for adventure games in a very public and open way, distanced from all other possible factors. These are people saying "I want an adventure game, BECAUSE it's an adventure game, and no other reason." Think of all the times Double Fine was probably turned down by publishers on an adventure game pitch over the years. This proves them wrong.

This ignores the cult of celebrity. If it were Tony Warriner it would not have received as much of a response.

So it's more a case of "I want a game, BECAUSE it's made by Tim Schafer/Double Fine, and no other reason."

If you want hard data on the demand for this style of game, you only need to look at sales figures.



I too am bothered by the lack of any proof of concept or proposal, we have no idea what they intend to make, which I find really astounding. If they were seeking funding then surely they have a proposal or concept ready to go.

I also find it bizarre that they were only asking for $400,000. Surely if Tim Schafer came to The Adventure Company, Microids or Home Focus saying he wanted to make an adventure game on a $400k budget they'd jump at the chance.

With the inclusion of the documentary series, which they now plan to spend more money on, coupled with the lack of info on what they want to make, I can't help escape this is all a massive stunt.

Do they intend to reap all of the financial reward, when they carried none of the risk?

Charitable organisations wish they'd get this sort of response.

[Phaid]

Donated as soon as I found out about the whole initiative, maybe we'll get more adventure games from vetarans of the genre like Tim, Ron, Al Lowe this way.

[[ben]]

Wolzal: There is a risk. More money they pledge, the more "pressure" Tim's good reputation gets. The rest of the studio also for that matter..

[kuze]

Originally Posted by Wolzal

Charitable organisations wish they'd get this sort of response.

Charities are getting their money. Some, I'm sure, are getting a lot of money. What are you suggesting? That people stop investing in art and/or entertainment and start giving all their money to charity? That people care more about helping sick people they don't know instead of encouraging talented people they know making things they like? None of this is ever going to happen.

I hate the "charity"/"African children" guilt inducing arguments. In your case, it also seems to be disconnected from the (ridiculous) point of Double Fine trying to rip their fans off which you were trying to make.

[Pyke]

Originally Posted by kuze

I hate the "charity"/"African children" guilt inducing arguments.

Trust me man-African governments have enough money to feed their own people. They just spend it on cars and caviare - but that's an entire other conversation.

I think its awesome that these 'older' developers are going independent. Smaller budgets, smaller teams, more autonomy.

[Shnubble]

It might very well be the makers of the documentary approached Double Fine and proposed this project to them. No one could have foreseen that kind of reaction by the fans, so they decided to divide the money by a fixed ratio.
Nonetheless I agree an extra soundtrack for the documentary would be a huge waste of money. I hope they realize that.
Also, because no one could have guessed what would be, they had to be careful about setting the goal. Missing your goal by a large number of backers will not only hurt the project but it will be held against you if you try to get money elsewhere.
I agree they could have gone to a publisher but then the publisher wants his share.
This started as a test for crowd funding that succeeded all expectations and perhaps even hopes.
For Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert that is, others might try the same in the future and fail.

[Frogacuda]

Originally Posted by Wolzal

This ignores the cult of celebrity. If it were Tony Warriner it would not have received as much of a response.

Because Tony Warriner is still making the games he wants to make. (Yes, it also helps that his games were never considered the peak of the genre).

I too am bothered by the lack of any proof of concept or proposal, we have no idea what they intend to make, which I find really astounding.

The whole point here is that he doesn't want to have to be accountable to financiers to approve his vision. He wants to make what he wants to make. And I want to let him.

That's really the whole idea. Not revealing anything about the game itself is no accident. It's a play for creative freedom, and it's one I fully respect and admire.

I also find it bizarre that they were only asking for $400,000. Surely if Tim Schafer came to The Adventure Company, Microids or Home Focus saying he wanted to make an adventure game on a $400k budget they'd jump at the chance.

This is surely true. But it would mean A) having someone approve his work and look over his shoulder, B) probably not getting to make the documentary, and C) end up with a smaller cut of the end product's sales.

I do hope we see a project more ambitious than whatever he was planning for $300,000.

[TopCat]

Originally Posted by Wolzal

This ignores the cult of celebrity. If it were Tony Warriner it would not have received as much of a response.

So it's more a case of "I want a game, BECAUSE it's made by Tim Schafer/Double Fine, and no other reason."

If you want hard data on the demand for this style of game, you only need to look at sales figures.



I too am bothered by the lack of any proof of concept or proposal, we have no idea what they intend to make, which I find really astounding. If they were seeking funding then surely they have a proposal or concept ready to go.

I also find it bizarre that they were only asking for $400,000. Surely if Tim Schafer came to The Adventure Company, Microids or Home Focus saying he wanted to make an adventure game on a $400k budget they'd jump at the chance.

With the inclusion of the documentary series, which they now plan to spend more money on, coupled with the lack of info on what they want to make, I can't help escape this is all a massive stunt.

Do they intend to reap all of the financial reward, when they carried none of the risk?

Charitable organisations wish they'd get this sort of response.

You can believe what you want mate... But the fact for the matter is, that there's demand for AG... TT's episodic games make a lot of money and most of them are AG... Tim and Ron are AG "superstars" so that's why ppl trusted them with their money...

Also... The Adventure Company is no more... They went bankrupt a while ago. All Microids is doing atm is porting their existing properties to the iOS devices... They don't have enough money to fund any games atm... Focus Home.. well... They're the SH games publisher, but that's about it... I would not trust them with another adventure game, because the SH games are almost entirely funded by Frogwares themselves.

[diego]

Originally Posted by Wolzal

I also find it bizarre that they were only asking for $400,000.

That's actually a smart move - if they asked for 4 millions right away, the whole thing might not had took off as it would look less probable, thus not causing the "domino effect" that's happening now.

I'm also not that interested in the documentary but rather the game itself. There's one problem i see here - clearly, Tim and Ron knew what they're going into, and i'm sure they've prepared with all their powers every aspect of the game production in order to come up with a great game. The trouble is, if things like game engine, scope of the story and characters, general idea from start to end... is already done, it would be hard now to change those things dramatically even with the superfluous money. What i'm saying - in one month, they could be budgeting game in a scale of LucasArts classic, but what if they had something "smaller" in their minds?

Originally Posted by Jackal

Not to be a downer, but let's be realistic. This is NOT a gauge of the genre's popularity per se. It's a gauge of how popular a new Tim Schafer adventure is. Those are hugely different things.

Yes, but hey - it might not be the sign of the genre's "popularity", but it looks just as another small step in something that is going on for years - whether it could be called a rerise, return of the "golden age", "resurrection", "mood" change... It might not be even that significant, but something is clearly happening that has to do with the genre. Something WAS happening even when Rockstar said: "Hey, and how about a little of those puzzles now?!", but this is clearly going to hit the headlines of more than just adventure game sites, and people, willingly or not, will finally learn about that obscure word "point-and-click".

[Frogacuda]

More important than challenging the idea of a genre's popularity in some unilateral sense, I think it's important because it challenges the publishers' preconceived notions of what will and won't sell.

It other words, it doesn't prove that people want a ton of adventure games, and any will do. But it does challenge the notion that people aren't interested in adventure games, or that they're a dead genre.

This is important in ways beyond the genre. There are a lot of games that can't get off the ground because publishers (or even developers) see some kind of pattern of past performance and assume there's no interest. This kind of thing offers a challenge to that.

All of a sudden a question like "Will Americans support a localization of Mother 3" won't be these hypotheticals or financial risks, they can just put it out there and see if people care as much as the petitions seem to suggest.

If I was Yu Suzuki, I'd be paying close attention right now.

[dekaneas297]

When it's published and it's good, I will buy it and promote it. But giving money before seeing anything is not my style. No matter who or how successful record anyone has in the past (and Tim Schafer is all of the above).

[Toothless Gibbon]

Originally Posted by dekaneas297

When it's published and it's good, I will buy it and promote it. But giving money before seeing anything is not my style. No matter who or how successful record anyone has in the past (and Tim Schafer is all of the above).

I think you have missed the point, its not a pre-order for the game - that's just a reward for backing the project.

[louiedog]

Originally Posted by dekaneas297

When it's published and it's good, I will buy it and promote it. But giving money before seeing anything is not my style. No matter who or how successful record anyone has in the past (and Tim Schafer is all of the above).

That's fair. I think most of us don't see this as a pre-order though. I put in for my share to support the kind of games that I like from artists that I believe in. I want to ensure that they can make the game that they want without owing anything to a publisher that gets to decide a DLC strategy, platform releases, intrusive DRM, the future direction of the IP, etc. I want all of that control to remain with Double Fine. If my pledge didn't include a copy of the game I'd still make it and buy the game later when released.