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Old 12-22-2011, 04:43 PM   #1
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in case you missed it - http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,1401

I've figured the thread would be nice as well, for in-depth thoughts and criticism , as this is probably going to grow into one of the more popular adventure lists. I congratulate to team for taking such a huge task.

I wanted to wait until the end of the article, but i'm already furious at Day of the Tentacle bashers or the fact that some of the games ranked way lower than i thought/expected.

But - the best thing in all of this are most definitely mini-reviews, as they are not being overly nostalgic but at the same time respecting the game for what it was when it was released.


As for the criticism, maybe one minor nag would be about "you might also like" - where in some instances i'd like to see more recommendations apart from other titles in the series. And now, the totally subjective rant

Toonstruck - i really think it's a Top 20 material
Spycraft - agreed with everything in the text. It's not a regular choice for lists so the position is more-less all right.
Journeyman Project 2 - it's all right only if 3rd is on the way as well
Simon the Sorcerer 2 - i'm not being fair here since i'm yet to finish it, but from what i saw - the humor alone would earn it Top 50 at least.
Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened - i could agree it's probably best of Frogwares SH series, even though The Silver Earring is not far from it with a more classical approach. But, if older Top 20 is anything of a tell-tale, there should be more of SH
Freddy Pharkas - totally agree - the game often skips the top 10, 20 lists, but it's not far from those classics.
Shadow of the Comet - glad it made the list, was hoping for Top 50 at least
Maniac Mansion and Pepper's Adventures in Time - the first big "casualties" of the Top 20 - yet to play them
Callahan's Crosstime Saloon - deservedly on the list
The Book of Unwritten Tales - deservedly also, i wouldn't mind if it ranked even higher
Black Dahlia - nice FMV choice and a quality game, i'm curious to see if some more FMVs made it, apart from an obvious choice

Last edited by diego; 12-22-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diego View Post
in case you missed it - http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,1401

I've figured the thread would be nice as well, for in-depth thoughts and criticism , as this is probably going to grow into one of the more popular adventure lists. I congratulate to team for taking such a huge task.
And this may grow into one of the longest threads in history.

Quote:
I wanted to wait until the end of the article, but i'm already furious at Day of the Tentacle bashers or the fact that some of the games ranked way lower than i thought/expected.
Oh, well, who really cares for long about the rankings. I know what I think the #1 game should be and which games should join it in the top ten but I doubt the team putting this together is going to agree. That's okay. It's fun reading the list but seriously, it's not going to change anyone's mind about how they would rank these games. As for the ones who bash the Purple Tentacle, they like to live dangerously, don't they?

Quote:
But - the best thing in all of this are most definitely mini-reviews, as they are not being overly nostalgic but at the same time respecting the game for what it was when it was released.
Yes, they're doing a nice job.

Quote:
The Book of Unwritten Tales - deservedly also, i wouldn't mind if it ranked even higher
Neither would I. I think it will be ranked higher in some future list.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:38 PM   #3
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The top started good, and it is good, but some choices just felt far-fetched. Like, ok, those games are not that great, but we should include some, so that we don't look like grandads who only rant about good old times Like Sherlock Holmes: The Awakened - I fairly don't see how it's a top material. Very linear, very unpolished and often dull. There are two excellent Sherlock games, what was the point in including this? And Drawn - it's sweet, but short and casual at its best. Emerald City with its grand and mostly original story should take its casual place, I say.
Then again, glad to see a Legend game (hope for at least 5 more) and totally utterly glad to see Shadow of the Comet.

Last edited by Arial Type; 12-22-2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:44 PM   #4
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Ooh, a thread where we can bitch in great detail! I needed that.

Things that made me happy
I've come to realise that I'm really not fond at all of games that are just an endless stream of nonsensical inventory puzzles with just some jokes and no story in between. That's why I think Day of the Tentacle is a terrible game. And that's why I'm glad Toonstruck got on the list (it's cute), but not higher.
The Feeble Files. I'm glad it didn't get forgotten. It's extremely hard, but Feeble is just such a great character.
The Colonel's Bequest got on the list instead of LB2. Hah!
The write-up for The 7th Guest is really spot-on. Despite all its shortcomings, the game deserved to be on the list.
Quest for Glory II! If rankings on the list were based on how many times I've played a game, this one should be in the top-5. Hopefully QfG4 will be somewhere up there.
Shadow of the Comet. Really glad this one didn't get forgotten either.
Hotel Dusk! Hopefully, Last Window will be here as well (based on last year's Aggies, I'm guessing it'll be).
Loom is in there. I'm not sure how one is supposed to rank such a particular game, but I'm glad it's on the list.

Things that annoyed me
Faust should be higher. It may not be top-20 material, but it's a very intriguing game that deserves better than 94.
I love The Dig. It's one of my favourite games ever. I really don't understand why there are so many people who don't like it.
Simon the Sorceror II. See my comments on DotT and Toonstruck above. Also it's insanely ugly (contrary to the first one, which at least had that going for it). I replayed it a few months ago, and I can confirm that's it's a really awful (and mostly unfunny) game.
The Awakened. Ugh. Remastered edition or not, I still think it has several awful sections, and I think it's vastly inferior to its two sequels (Lupin and Jack the Ripper).
Leisure Suit Larry 7. It's a fine line between risque and crass, and I feel that LSL7, contrary to its predecessors, ended up on the wrong side --- particularly because Larry actually got most of the girls this time, turning the series from "lovable loser tries to pretend he's a stud and mostly fails" to "creepy old guy bangs tons of hot chicks". I think LSL3 or 6 would have been better choices as the highlight of the series.
999 is listed in the "you might also like...", which means it won't make the list. That's one of the most gripping games I've ever played.

Games I need to play:
Gemini Rue
Amber
Shadow of Destiny. Bought it a few years ago, stopped playing after a couple of chapters for some reason, can't get it to run now that I'm on Win 7 64-bit.
Book of Unwritten Tales
Black Dahlia
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:14 AM   #5
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I personally wouldn't have put Gemini Rue or BOUT in there - they are both good games, but not classics.

I'm happy for any Sherlock Holmes to make the list, but I really think Arsene Lupin is better than The Awakened. But it doesn't really matter, both are great.
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Old 12-23-2011, 03:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Kurufinwe View Post
999 is listed in the "you might also like...", which means it won't make the list. That's one of the most gripping games I've ever played.
Unless it was confirmed otherwise... i dont think that guarentees a game wont be on the list?? That would mean discworld 2 is on the list, and discworld 1 wont be O_O
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:11 AM   #7
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Yeah, i wonder about it, too. Kurufinwe nicely spotted that the recommendations tend to be games which presumably won't make the list (which is, on the other hand - nice way to cover bigger number of titles), but we'll just have to wait and see. It would make me sad if Legend of Kyrandia didn't make it.

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Oh, well, who really cares for long about the rankings.
oh yeah, and i'm certain the stuff is perfectly aware of it - you might not agree with the list (especially when the time comes for the top 10), some of our fav games might not make the list AT ALL, but everyone is on a win here - we've got ourselves a diverse selection where everyone should be able to find something interesting.

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Neither would I. I think it will be ranked higher in some future list.
yes, recent games are in a weaker starting position - they're still fresh, not replayed or even played many times, and we don't know how they'll hold the test of time. So it's a success they make the list at all. But i expect couple of newer titles to be included also.

As for Larry 7, i would agree with the selection - it's just the easiest to recommend out from the series to someone who has never played a Larry game, because of the difficulty and technical aspect. And it's still funny, too. And there's nothing wrong in playing Larry 7 first, and if you liked it, to try the earlier ones later.

Last edited by diego; 12-23-2011 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 12-23-2011, 04:54 AM   #8
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I was very glad to see Callahan's Crosstime Saloon making the list, but I sincerely hope we see Death Gate (Top 20 material) and Mission Critical as well. Not many text adventures so far though, which is a shame
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:00 AM   #9
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All fingers and toes crossed for Zork: Grand Inquisitor!
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:05 AM   #10
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Great, I made this giant post, covering all 40 titles so far, and asking some additional info to you guys for some of them (Dark Fall comes to mind). And then I mistakenly cut-paste (instead of copy-paste) the entire thing into oblivion. Joy!

At least I still have the titles that will be added to my ever-growing list of games to play. They are:

Ripley's Believe It or Not!: The Riddle of Master Lu
Toonstruck
Spycraft: The Great Game
Drawn-games
Shadow of the Comet
Discworld II
Discworld Noir
Shadow of Memories / Shadow of Destiny
Jake Hunter Detective Story: Memories of the Past
The Book of Unwritten Tales
Black Dahlia

Yes, some of these were in the "you might also like"-category.


And I've decided no to say anything about the order of the top 100 (and possible omissions), because I know in advance that there will always be titles that are ranked higher than I'd like (I've never been much of a fan of the Broken Sword games) and that some titles will be lower than I'd like (I've always loved the Dig - at least it made the list).


Can anyone tell me whether or not I'd like Obsidian and the Dark Fall games? I'm not normally into Myst-like games, but I did like Zork: Nemesis and I have played (and finished) Uru: Ages Beyond Myst...
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:05 AM   #11
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Al Lowe himself conciders Larry 7 his best work, and I agree with that. The game is all about leisure, that's what the title of the series says. And it's beautifully drawn, there are many tiny details, the puzzle structure is much better than in previous games, and it features probaly the best interface in the adventure gaming history. Humour is a subjective matter, but I find it mostly suitable for the series.
THIS section alone is priceless.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:27 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
Discworld Noir
It wasn't in "you might also like"

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Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
And I've decided no to say anything about the order of the top 100 (and possible omissions), because I know in advance that there will always be titles that are ranked higher than I'd like...
Hey, but that's not the reason not to have your say and bitch about the choices as the lists should be taken lighthearted

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and it features probaly the best interface in the adventure gaming history
if you're thinking about the unique combination of text-input and mouse control i agree. Oh the joy, when i tried on some dirty verbs

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Not many text adventures so far though, which is a shame
i don't think there will be any, apart from semi-text games like Larry 7 and older Legend titles. The site had never reviewed those, and somehow, they're a genre on its own, they would need a totally separate list as i see it.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diego View Post
It wasn't in "you might also like"
That was just me anticipating future additions to my infamous "list"...

Don't make me break out the frying pan!
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
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i don't think there will be any, apart from semi-text games like Larry 7 and older Legend titles. The site had never reviewed those, and somehow, they're a genre on its own, they would need a totally separate list as i see it.
Not sure I agree as they're still adventures, especially if many parser-based titles (for example, early Sierra) make it to the list.

I suspect we're going to see the first Zork and possibly A Mind Forever Voyaging, but I think there should be a nod to Magnetic Scrolls and, yes, older Legend as well (case in point, Eric The Unready which remains SO neglected to this day).
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:05 AM   #15
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I’m very pleased that Spycraft and the Space Bar made it. Biggest surprise so far: Obsidian! I’m absolutely delighted of course. It’s firmly in my Top Ten but I’m one of the last Mohicans.*

Agustin, I too would love to see more Legend games. But I’m not so sure there will be, other than Callahan’s and perhaps Blackstone Chronicles. Text adventures? That’s a different ball game, as far as I’m concerned.


* I seem to remember Jackal wasn’t really taken with it and frankly, I can’t think of any current staff members (apart from ex-staff member Kuru ) who would vote for Obsidian.

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Old 12-23-2011, 07:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
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if you're thinking about the unique combination of text-input and mouse control i agree. Oh the joy, when i tried on some dirty verbs
Oh yes, I think everyone tried that out)) The greatest invention since verb coin.

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Agustin, I too would love to see more Legend games. But Iím not so sure there will be, other than Callahanís and perhaps Blackstone Chronicles. Text adventures? Thatís a different ball game, as far as Iím concerned.
Considering Death Gate got a lot of praise from everyone, I don't see a way around it. Blackstone, of course, is also worth any top as one of the best horror games. I would also like to see TimeQuest and Gateway series, but they are likely be ignored as well as other IFs.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:24 AM   #17
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Glad everyone's enjoying the list so far. And whenever you don't, bitching's half the fun!

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Unless it was confirmed otherwise... i dont think that guarentees a game wont be on the list??
I can confirm that none of the "You might also likes" are on the list. Although one game from a franchise might still make it if we've simply recommended the rest of the series elsewhere.

These aren't "honourable mentions" per se, but for the most part we tried to pick only the best of the rest, so they end up serving in that capacity.

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* I seem to remember Jackal wasnít really taken with it and frankly, I canít think of any current staff members (apart from ex-staff member Kuru ) who would vote for Obsidian.
I'm pleased to say you remember completely wrong. It was me who ensured it made the list. In fact, I think I might be the only one on staff who's played it.

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i don't think there will be any, apart from semi-text games like Larry 7 and older Legend titles. The site had never reviewed those, and somehow, they're a genre on its own, they would need a totally separate list as i see it.
I don't want to tip our hand, but rest assured that text adventures have not been overlooked. You're right, though, the wealth of options posed a challenge, so we decided to... oh, but that would be telling.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:48 AM   #18
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Enjoying the list so far. Personally, I'd have placed Indigo Prophecy higher and Samorost 2 lower. True, Indigo Prophecy falls apart in the last third (and has a frustrating control system to boot) but I found it extraordinarily engaging despite its flaws. Samorost 2 is delightful, but IMHO just too short to deserve a place above so many meatier games.

Glad to see The 7th Guest there, not for the gameplay but for its impact on the genre. Even as a teenager playing it the year after its release I found the gameplay and story (if you can call it a story) mediocre, but it was an innovative experiment.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:52 AM   #19
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bitching's half the fun!
With that in mind:

Quote:
I can confirm that none of the "You might also likes" are on the list.
No 999? That makes me a sad panda...

Quote:
I don't want to tip our hand, but rest assured that text adventures have not been overlooked. You're right, though, the wealth of options posed a challenge, so we decided to... oh, but that would be telling.
Tease.

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Old 12-23-2011, 08:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
I can confirm that none of the "You might also likes" are on the list.
I guess that means that The Lost Crown and Scratches didn't make it . A pity, as I think they're both fantastic, The Lost Crown especially.
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