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I’m in the same league as Karlok. Trump is acting and living in his own fairytale land (which by the way looks more and more like that of mine and Karlok’s and Calimonk’s local idiot Wilders) and hasn’t anything to do with my opinion about the US or its inhabitants.
I really don’t see the conversation so far and the invitation to discuss differences between Europe and the US as destructive or negative. Are you telling us we can’t discuss politics in Chit-Chat anymore?
No, if I’d feel that I’d say so; I don’t do meta, it’s a skill I don’t possess as a Dutch person :-)
What I was pointing out is that we should refrain from giving everyone the same label, the world doesn’t work like that.
I’m not fond of generalizations about any country or culture. I try to get a balanced view of the world by reading several sources, including those with which I may disagree, but even then, I’m only reading what a news service, no matter how unbiased, chooses to report.
Personally, I love to travel and have had a valid passport since 1971 when I flew across the pond for the first time to visit friends living in Ostuni, a small town north of Brindisi on the Adriatic. Staying with someone is the best way for me to see a region because I get to go to the local shops and markets and experience the culture more thoroughly. I only had a few words of Italian but managed to communicate just fine most of the time. I also got to go to Florence (Firenze) for 3 days and soak up all of that lovely, lovely art.
I have visited England many times, at first to stay with my late husband’s cousin in Essex and then, since I retired, to take my annual theater trip to London (with a day trip to Stratford) to do what I love most, see plays and visit museums. I have also been to Mexico and have camped and canoed in Canada several times. I’m now making plans to visit relatives in N. Ireland (Dave’s dad grew up there.) and to take one of the European river cruises.
However, when all is said and done, it’s still a big undertaking to travel across the Atlantic. Not only is it expensive, but it’s time consuming. I live near the New Jersey shore and usually fly out of Newark International, which is an hour and a half drive north. By the time I get to the airport, spend 3 hours there, 6-7 hours flying, plus the time it takes at the other end, I’m exhausted. Someone from California would have to add another 6 hours of flight time to make the same trip. I haven’t flown to any countries in the East (nor Hawaii, for that matter) because of the long travel time. So yes, I have to agree that most American families, especially those with kids, would choose to take a trip within driving distance. Just within the tri-state area (NJ, NY, and Pennsylvania) there are a plethora of museums, theaters, historic sites, aquariums, lakes and rivers, bird sanctuaries, gardens, mountains, trails for hiking, and ocean beaches, so it’s understandable why people would want to stay closer to home.
“Rainy days should be spent at home with a cup of tea and a good book.” -Bill Watterson
Oh, why? now you ve been caught into the Karlock web LadyK, you should ve kept ignoring her, now just try to watch out! 
I haven’t written anything particularly controversial, Advie, so don’t start stirring the pot on my behalf. 
“Rainy days should be spent at home with a cup of tea and a good book.” -Bill Watterson
You’re right of course Lady Kestrel. Every generalization is unfair. But the US is so far removed from Europe with regard to social laws, heathcare, education and care for the environment whie at the same time many Americans are so convinced that they are ‘the best country in the world’ that it’s weird.
I agree with you as far as social laws and health care are concerned. I find it baffling that so many Americans are opposed to Obamacare, not because of the start-up problems, but *on principle*. I’m very happy with our system of health care insurance. But education better in Europe? Not true. Environment? Highly debatable. We shouldn’t just look at the federal government.
EDIT: I’d be interested in LadyKestrel’s opinion and criticism of the differences between European countries and the USA.
Karlok, Obamacare is awful to be honest with you and that’s why lots of people are against it. I am talking about left people like myself, and not the far right conservatives who believe in small government and that everything should be private.
Obamacare does provide healthcare to everyone sure, but it does not control the astronomical costs imposed by doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies. So basically, it asks people who don’t have insurance to get one, but it is not free. You still have to pay sometimes a big chunk of money for a subpar healthcare plan, and some people just cannot afford it. And if you do not or cannot pay for it, you have to pay a penalty.
That’s why some people like myself are not too excited about it. I would love nothing more than to have free healthcare, but not the way Obama implemented it.
As far as what Tsa mentioned concerning the environment and education, I have to respectfully disagree. US Colleges and universities are some of the best in the world, and I am privileged to live next to 2 of the best: UC Berkeley and Stanford University. Some of the top tech companies today like Google and Youtube (and Yahoo at one point 
) are founded by graduates from those universities. As far as the environment goes, this does not apply everywhere, but here in the bay area, we are really big on recycling. You have to pay an extra fee if you buy plastic bottles, or you get a plastic bag from a grocery store. Lots of people drive Toyota Prius hybrid cars (myself included), and you’ve probably heard of the Tesla electric car manufactured here and which you can see quite a lot. In San Francisco, the local buses are operated fully on electricity. So it is a generalization to say that all the US does not care about the environment.
As far as social justice, we have taken enormous strides in equality between races and between genders. In employment and education, there is affirmative action where companies and schools are required to hire at least a certain percentage of minorities. California specifically has the California equal pay act:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/California_Equal_Pay_Act.htm
that guarantees women and men doing the same type of work are payed equally.
I haven’t written anything particularly controversial, Advie, so don’t start stirring the pot on my behalf.
you are really missing the point Ladyk.. or wasnt following this a bit earlier than i thought, as I was the one being controversial and tried to straighten it… here is my defend your honor for this incident to see how it was me being extra sensitive towards an image that i thought afterwards it was inappropriate esp when the posts the were following wre taking advantage of it towards the ‘matter’ of (Americans and America being arrogant ?) :_
after me posted this image of Aladdin
i seen the posts that followed and they made me delete and posted this
can we stop this America whats so ever?
i have tasted this before; a whole country being blamed in behalf of someone, god’s know how he has reached this position.
at least we can pay some respect to a member who doesn’t like the tone, and a very especial one ..
meaning only we oughta respect your opinion as a member asking “to not generalize the ‘matter’ “
LOL! Another attempt by our self-appointed mod to shup people up.
but then i was accused of being self-appointed mod and laughed at when there were anything but good intention.
so no i am not stirring anything it was me who was stirred because i was trying to defend you statement but all that turned out that this ‘matter’ you didnt care about either ways, that was it you honor
@soccerdude
yes OCare is sub prime mortgage dejavu of 2008 bubble burst
So it is a generalization to say that all the US does not care about the environment
You forgot rats in NYC apartments and old as shit pipelines
Cali has highest quality of life and other metrics, its just one state
That notion also pwned Leftists when they thought majority coast states will help them make win the election where there was lots of US in between
US is about rural towns and states like Arkansas,Dakota,Nebraska etc where there are not even proper bridges and town folks have to gather funds themselves, let alone green environment
They deal with small city problems with decaying infrastructure, shrinking populations, and higher costs etc
Thats why Trump said he will defund Cali, he has seen them states
Too much self serving of states going on, people care about equality act of gender recruitment in companies but ignore equal funding of all states
So for that poor environment is least of a concern
You talk about sustainable America, tell me universities which have best courses in US and then compare it to European ones, Euro is pioneering sustainable disciplines in Academics and company practices
My bro is doing Msc is Sustainable Env, and he looked all over, only Europe is mastering in that front, top quality, with solid jobs from product design to infrastructure
Advie,
I realize your intentions were good. I also thought the cartoon caption was funny albeit in a sad kind of way.
“Rainy days should be spent at home with a cup of tea and a good book.” -Bill Watterson
LOL! Another attempt by our self-appointed mod to shup people up.
but then i was accused of being self-appointed mod and laughed at when there were anything but good intention.
Don’t worry Advie, by now Karlok has pretty much accused everybody of being a self-appointed mod - it is one of her favourite phrases.
Wear it as a badge of honour!
As for the whole USA discussion, then I agree with both Lady Kestrel and to some degree with SoccerDude28.
I lived for a year in the USA myself as a child, and have visited it a couple of times since then. The USA is far more diverse and heterogeneous than Europeans generally give it credit for, some of the most open-minded, helpful and friendly persons I have met have actually been Americans, and not just on the coasts, but also right in the middle of Trump land. The school I attended also actually had a higher learning standard, at least in some classes like math and science than my European school.
Another thing that many Europeans also forget is that the USA is a huge country, in square-kilometres it is almost as big as the entire Europa, though less densely populated.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
@soccerdude
yes OCare is sub prime mortgage dejavu of 2008 bubble burstSo it is a generalization to say that all the US does not care about the environment
You forgot rats in NYC apartments and old as shit pipelines
Cali has highest quality of life and other metrics, its just one state
That notion also pwned Leftists when they thought majority coast states will help them make win the election where there was lots of US in between
Cities in general tend to be dirty. Even San Francisco has some dirty streets. It happens in a place where millions of people live. Remember that the US is almost half a continent in size, so for every single neighborhood to be like Wisteria Lane is just not realistic. And plus, I have been to upper NY state (not NYC) and it is gorgeous there and clean and very green.
US is about rural towns and states like Arkansas,Dakota,Nebraska etc where there are not even proper bridges and town folks have to gather funds themselves, let alone green environment
They deal with small city problems with decaying infrastructure, shrinking populations, and higher costs etc
Thats why Trump said he will defund Cali, he has seen them states
Too much self serving of states going on, people care about equality act of gender recruitment in companies but ignore equal funding of all states
US is about every state and every citizen, and not rural or urban. To discount california is to discount one of the biggest economies in the world, and about 10% of America’s population.
Karlok: I’d be interested in LadyKestrel’s opinion and criticism of the differences between European countries and the USA.
Advie: Oh, why? now you ve been caught into the Karlock web LadyK, you should ve kept ignoring her, now just try to watch out!
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
Karlok, Obamacare is awful to be honest with you and that’s why lots of people are against it. I am talking about left people like myself, and not the far right conservatives who believe in small government and that everything should be private.
I read a lot about Obamacare when it was a hot topic, but I also forgot a lot about all the complexities and intricacies. And of course I’m a total ignoramus when it comes to the everyday practice.
Obamacare does provide healthcare to everyone sure, but it does not control the astronomical costs imposed by doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies.
Why doesn’t it? It’s supposed to cover the costs, right?
So basically, it asks people who don’t have insurance to get one, but it is not free.
There’s no such thing as free health care. Everybody has to contribute for the insurance to work. That includes young, healthy people.
You still have to pay sometimes a big chunk of money for a subpar healthcare plan, and some people just cannot afford it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the government supposed to subsidize people with a very low income? Well, at least that’s what we do over here. Homeless people and illegal immigrants excepted.
And if you do not or cannot pay for it, you have to pay a penalty.
I googled the penalty and found that it’s lower than the premium many people have to pay. If that’s correct, young people are rewarded for not contributing to Obamacare.
I chose the most basic health care insurance (essentially covers GP + specialists, hospital, limited number of physiotherapy sessions, no dental care) and I pay about 1400-1500 euro a year. Do you think that’s outrageous, in the normal range or very cheap?
Butter my buns and call me a biscuit! - Agent A
US is about every state and every citizen, and not rural or urban. To discount california is to discount one of the biggest economies in the world, and about 10% of America’s population.
Rhetoric
In reality if it was about every citizen Cali would not have been existed as biggest economy and resulted in other states being marginalized
There is far more concentration on one area in US and that needs to be changed
Equal funding and more businesses in other parts of nation
The only reason why people around the US and world drift to Cali or NYC can be changed into different cities
The only reason Cali has ground enough to say Calexit is the fact that it has centralized too much resources and benefits at the expense of other states
Thats why so called united states is not united, and fighting now on streets, that farmer livin in trailer house is frustrated that his jobs are being taken away by some chinese and he doesnt want to leave his home town because he wants to build it himself, meanwhile that Chinese homeland China doesnt invite multi cultural people in China and still beats Cali as biggest economy
That was my point
Detroit was The shit too in days of Car industry boom, it takes months to get on bottom
There are rumors of 120k slab of H1B visa, that alone could hit Silicon valley hard,
them Indian and Chinese cant stay for long after graduation unless proven worthy of getting job of that slab after graduation
I hope it passes, so that all those immigrants exploiting these benefits at the expense of locals should know their place
Just in,
http://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/comment/what-do-europeans-think-about-muslim-immigration#
“Majorities in all but two of the ten states agreed, ranging from 71% in Poland, 65% in Austria, 53% in Germany and 51% in Italy to 47% in the United Kingdom and 41% in Spain. In no country did the percentage that disagreed surpass 32%”
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