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Old 03-09-2010, 11:15 AM   #161
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Wow, my internet dies for a week and the playthrough is already at chapter 4! Luckily I don't need internet to play the game.

Just a few small notes on chapter 3. First of all, the clock:
Spoiler:
During my first playthrough I - just for fun, I guess? I have no reason why I did that in the first place? - used the clock with the plant, saw Gabe putting it behind the plant, and added to my notes "For some reason the woodpecking cuckoo cklock is behind the...plant", only to add a few seconds later: "Aah, I see why "
I wonder how long it would have taken me when I did not stumble right onto the solution the first time.

Chapter 3 was also the chapter in which my speculations began. As I just had started day 3, after having spoken to Von Glower, I wrote down 2 A4 pages of speculations. Reading them back makes me smile, some are spot on, some are so off, some are in the middle. It is fun to see that speculations made in this thread match my own (no, I am not tellling you in what category they fall )

Chapter 4, I remember it fondly. Prepare for a cascade of information and history, and let's worship Jane Jensen's love for research!
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:26 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 View Post
Wait, just be clear. What I posted were my thoughts on the characters when I originally played the game without knowing what was going on! My current thoughts of them are sometimes very dissimilat to what I posted...
Whoops! Sorry Andrea, didn't mean to pre-judge!
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:34 PM   #163
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Although I haven't been posting I'm still following this playthrough. I still have Chapter 3 to do and, in fact, I'm gonna do it now.
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:59 PM   #164
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Well, as a first time player I am very much agreeing with Andrea at the moment, so I can vouch for the first timer perspective.

I think the quotes from the novel also are adding so much insight to GK2 for me. I know Gabe never really expressed himself properly in GK1 like he did in the novel then as well, but I feel like just reading that one bit makes me see so so much more of the GK2 Gabe. It's a shame that that feeling isn't replicated more in the game, but being internal thoughts it wouldn't be an easy thing . Even when it comes to his thoughts on what's happening around him at the moment, with the men at the club and with the werewolves, I'd love to know more about what his thoughts and feelings are rather than a continual mix of bewilderment and bemusement. Someone said it before, the line lending itself to his past (something about suggesting him to be a womanizer), and I think in that line it showed a crack of some internal thought and I wanted to see more! Bah, ok I'm done with my rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantasysci5 View Post
I felt sorry for Thomas, since Gabriel uses him for his own means. I know most adventure heroes do this, but it always makes me feel sorry for the used characters, and makes me wonder what happened to them afterwards.
Haha, I know exactly what you mean! I always think back on those poor souls at the end of a game, thinking (despite the usual positive nature of endings) 'but what about this person or that? What about them?!'. Maybe they all meet at bars later and mope to each other about the different neglectful protaginists...
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Old 03-09-2010, 04:35 PM   #165
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Sughly-Yes, like the cop in TLJ... lol

I'm near the end of Chapter 2 now, so I'm getting there! So not only did I think Von Zell had a thing for Von Glower, but Von Glower had a thing for Gabriel, and even Preiss might have a thing for Gabriel! The way he stared at him for far too long and said he was interesting really creeped me out.

And poor Gerde, she was even trying to be hospitable when Grace first got to the castle! I have a question from reading the book, although I don't think it really pertains to the story much; it says werewolves are immune to aging. So what if they were born with it, and are kids...do they not age? Sorry, that thought just popped into my head.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:24 AM   #166
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RE Apollo and Dionisos reference

Spoiler:
That gave me a little bit to think about. Certainly Gabe's life versus Von Glower's seems much worse in comparison - Gabe is living "like a monk" while Von Glower has it all, also having none (apparently) of Gabe's doubts and decision problems. Is Gabriel fooling himself, that at least his is "good" and that the reward will eventually come, secretly wanting what Von Glower has - celebration of life's pleasures without guilt, decisions without burdening his conscience, rebellion against duty.

Shattenager business is sort of collar which was imposed upon Gabe by his family and reinforced by his surrounding, which bounces him back to order every time he snaps and does something crazy. Is Gabriel's pleasure always punished?


A movie which i find the apollo-dionysian contrast explored under male-female angle nicely is Antichrist...

Oh and why nobody mentions my favourite (after FVG) character in the game which is Harry. He is such a pet.
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Old 03-10-2010, 01:38 AM   #167
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KasiaD:
Spoiler:
Shattenager business is sort of collar which was imposed upon Gabe by his family and reinforced by his surrounding, which bounces him back to order every time he snaps and does something crazy. Is Gabriel's pleasure always punished?


I don't see much noblesse oblige in Von Glower's behavior, but Gabriel's restraining Schattenjaeger's collar seems to be made from it.
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:30 AM   #168
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@ KasiaD:

Note: Don't read the following if you haven't completed the game.

Spoiler:
It's certain that Gabriel feels a longing toward Von Glower's lifestyle, as he himself admits at the end of the game. And it's also certain that he's living somewhat like a monk, frozing himself in Schloss Ritter without even an idea for a novel...

... But we must not forgot that Malia died only a year ago, that everything in his life radically changed within this timespan, that he can't no longer be the man-child he used to be.

In The Beast Within, Gabriel is like an adolescent, trying to figuring out what to do next with his life -- but it's not true that his pleasure always gets punished by his Talisman, so to speak, and this is certainly not what Jane is trying to say us. Look, for example, at Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned: four years after this second investigation, Gabriel's appetites are back in full form, he's voracious as ever and there's hardly any woman able to resist his charm Sincerely, I always thought that, in The Beast Within, it was the shock related to the death of Malia to restrain him, that and probably the deep fascination for Von Glower
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:54 AM   #169
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CHAPTER FOUR



He was a romantic, you know? A dreamer.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:14 AM   #170
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I have to say, as a first time player I'm having difficulty knowing if 'spoiler' means for chapters ahead of where we are or for the chapter we are currently on/completing. If you could outline what degree of spoiler it is it would be helpful. Thank you to Andrea for doing so .
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:51 AM   #171
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I agree that Harry is an awesome character. I loved him a lot, too, and he's so young and adorable, I just want to give him hugs.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:40 AM   #172
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Very interesting take on chapter 3 and the club members, Andrea. I fervently disagree with most of your opinions. Amazing. I would post more, but I don't want to spoil anybody's fun. It'll keep.
Yep, agreed. More discussion on this might be best kept till we're close to the end or have finished! I fear my perspective on characters is influenced by what I know happens at the end. I guess if you kept notes while playing it the first time, it's possible to be objective. Looking forward to hearing Andrea's, Fien's, and others perspectives on the characters once we've finished.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:50 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Luna Sevithiainen View Post
Chapter 4, I remember it fondly. Prepare for a cascade of information and history, and let's worship Jane Jensen's love for research!
That's for sure And most of it very well researched, that's for sure, even if there is a slightly "touristy-perspective" of Ludwig II at times - I'd question whether he was really that "loved" by the people at the time & certainly now most Bavarians just think he was a king who built some impressive (if rather Kitsch) castles but certainly had at least one screw loose

But the history and settings are broadly accurate. The inside of Neuschwanstein is very similar, with even the Singer's Hall being close (but obviously different) to what is portrayed in the game. I haven't been inside Neuschwanstein since playing the game, but had been in at least twice beforehand. You're not allowed to take photos inside but, if you have a look at Wikipedia, you'll find some of the main rooms shown, including the main backdrop tapestry in the Singer's Hall - green background the same as in GK2, but no wolf . Shame we don't get a picture of Herrenchiemsee - modelled by Ludwig II on Versaille...but had of course to be a bit bigger . Sure any of you can find pictures easily enough on Wiki or wherever if you're interested.

I find the acting overall (all things considered) very good in GK2, even many of the minor characters. Hennemann, Von Aigner, and Preiss are all really strong, also Werner Huber, and Gerde herself is certainly solid. Klingmann too. Others are OK - von Zell, Thomas, Harry (sorry, no better than that ). Also many of the no-name characters like the woman in the post office, the first policeman, or the TV reporter. But as previously commented, Leber's got his flaws, as his Xavier, and in chapter 4, we meet maybe the worst of the lot...

The woman in the Museum! Implausibly aggressive, probably not a German native speaker (accent is a bit too harsh & clipped - I'd guess she's Dutch), and no Bavarian would greet people with "Guten Tag" - that's only used by Northern Germans. "GrŁŖ Gott" ("Gruess Gott" for anyone without German letter recognition), approximately translated as "Greetings to God" was still standard in the 90s for all greetings, and even now certainly still the norm for older Bavarians (and probably all people in the countryside - Munich, being a big city, is a bit different).
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:21 AM   #174
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No detailed comments from me about chapter 3. We're heavy in renovation work so it might be a while before I finish chapter 4 as well.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:08 AM   #175
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The woman in the Museum! Implausibly aggressive, probably not a German native speaker (accent is a bit too harsh & clipped - I'd guess she's Dutch),
Yeah, she is a terrible actor. Why didn't anyone tell her not to bang her fist. Bad directing. But her accent is certainly not Dutch (I am Dutch). To me she sounds like a native speaker. If you think she can't be German, then perhaps she's Austrian or Swiss.

[[I deleted my earlier post, I thought I was posting it too soon and it was too long anyway. I'll repost some of it.]]

Score: 380

I love the opening scene with Gracie running in her long dress. Wonderful chapter about Ludwig’s tormented soul. It hadn’t really sunk in that he was only 18 years old when he became King and I think even younger when he met the Black Wolf, according to Christian’s diary. I was almost sorry to get back to Gabriel. And when one of Gabe’s chapters ends, I’m almost sorry to get back to Grace. The different modes complement each other and make the game even more interesting and immersive. Good game design.

Isn’t it interesting that some of the paintings in Neuschwanstein are from the opera Parsifal and in the singer’s hall the Tour tape tells Grace the story of Hildegunde, when Thomas in the zoo said the missing wolves were called Parsifal and Hilda. Neither Thomas nor Herr Doktor strike me as Wagner fans, but who knows.

BTW, something bothered me in the singer’s hall. It is connected to events in chapter six, so don’t read the spoiler, Sughly and other first-time players.

Spoiler:
How come the Tour recorder knows so much about Engelhart (hey, another Angel and Hildegunde, names and all? The opera was LOST, right? It would have made sense if The Voice had said nobody knows the story behind the paintings or something like that.
Bad game design.

Spoiler for the opening movie of chapter 5:
Spoiler:
Love it. Our little angel getting the attention his body needs. (But I hate his backstabbing Grace.) “Detta! Show him his bedroom!” Von Glower may be magnetic, attractive... and he is, he is... but he sure knows how to issue commands.

Last edited by Fien; 03-11-2010 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:23 AM   #176
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Quote:
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BTW, something bothered me in the singerís hall. It is connected to events in chapter six, so donít read the spoiler, Sughly and other first-time players.

Spoiler:
How come the Tour recorder knows so much about Engelhart (hey, another Angel and Hildegunde, names and all? The opera was LOST, right? It would have made sense if The Voice had said nobody knows the story behind the paintings or something like that.
Bad game design.
This is explained on the tour tape that Ludwig himself provided descriptions by these paintings, so I guess that is how the tour tape knows.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:49 AM   #177
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Yeah I was just going to say that. When listening to the tour tape carefully it says Ludwig provided the titles and descriptions for the paintings, so that's what the tape says about them but that's about all the info it has on them...

I also found curious the names of the wolves, I didn't notice this during my first playthrough but this time when I heard the names I was surprised. I guess is just acts as a foretelling of what will we be dealing with later in the game?

By the way I love this chapter. I think the first time I played it I was a little overwhelmed with all the information, although it's so fascinating! This time around I have a better grasp and is like I have now a better appreciation of all that's happening and all the history... I can tell why it would be Andreas' favorite chapter...

I found hilarious the names of the castles that Gabriel uses in his letter
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:14 AM   #178
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There is only one major flaw in this chapter, and that has to do with the museums...
Spoiler:
I am pretty sure I have seen everything of interest in Neuschwannstein, but the icon is still blinking as to that I have missed something, but I have no clue what...
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #179
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That happened to me too, Luna. I kept getting that blinking and couldn't understand it. I had gone thru the place thoroughly at least 3 times. However, when I completed the other place ( I had missed something there), the game progressed and the chapter ended.

I've been playing along with everyone else, though not commenting. This is such a wonderful game that I can't put it down. I'm at the end now and just need to finish the last little bit.

When this game first came out I bought it and have played it several times since then. It still remains one of those games that really draws me in and keeps me there. I have felt more emotion over this game than any other I have ever played. And needless to say, I just love Von Glower.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #180
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I have to say, walking all the way across Marienplatz when getting off the subway to get the to club gets annoying after awhile, especially since you can't just skip the walking. But I still love it. The intensity of Herr Preiss is scary yet alluring at the same timw, as is Von Glower.

A slight spoiler for the whole game;
Spoiler:
I kind of wish we could ask Von Glower is he knows anything about Ludwig 2 while we're asking everybody those kind of questions...I would have liked to see his reaction.
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