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Old 03-08-2010, 01:48 PM   #141
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Certainly not completely off - on 1st listen, I also understood "Ich bin sicher er ist kein Writer" (I'm sure he's not a writer) - but I knew (unless it was sloppy work) that it made no sense - why would they use the English word "writer" (In German "Schriftsteller" or "Author"). But I clicked on 2nd listen ""Ich bin sicher er ist kein Ritter"! i.e. I'm sure he's not a Ritter. Makes sense that von Zell, considering his pretty obvious prejudices, would be convinced that a slobby, laid-back American like Gaby could never have come from a good, traditional Germanic line like the Ritters.
Ritter! Never occurred to me, but of course that makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to translate the German bits.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:20 PM   #142
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@PhoenixWrong: No I'm still stuck in there I would love the savegame, so I can continue from there at least. I'm not sure about save file transfer though, I don't know if the installer + patch affects anything but we can give it a try anyway

Thanks
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:28 PM   #143
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Let me know if this works. Be sure to backup your saves beforehand too

It should be right at the beginning of chapter 4, I used the subtitle patch and the GOG installer.
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File Type: zip GK2saves (2).zip (63.4 KB, 92 views)
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:08 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by fov View Post
Also I'm not sure if I could have

Spoiler:
gone back to the police station after calling Grossberg's office, and asked for his ledgers? I intended to, but I stopped at the club first to see if anyone was there and it triggered the end of the chapter.

Spoiler:
I don't believe you could have. Once you have talked to Leber and gotten the info from the note, if you try to go back to the police station it tells you that it is closed.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:53 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Denaron View Post
Spoiler:
Second. In the cuckoo clock part, when you have to use it to lure xaver. Basicaly I used the old adventure rule: Use everything on everything. I thought that cuckoo clock was those ones that a little bird pops out of the clock with an annoying sound. Never thoght it would simulate a knocking sound, lol.


I haven't appealed to any web hints so far, and I'm gonna do the best I can to avoid it! It's been a long time since I've finished an adventure without UHS.
Spoiler:
When you buy the clock at the store and you pick it up it makes the knocking sound. I didn't remember this on my first play through either. It would have been nice if you it said something about it when Gabe looks at it in the inventory.


If you can do this on the first playthrough without hints then I'm impressed!
I remember that clock trick taking me forever to figure out the first time I played.

Spoiler:
I have played this game many times and I still got a little stuck. I forgot to look at Von Glower's card and couldn't figure out why nothing was happening.


Anyway, I finished Chapter 3 with 261 points. My favorite part of this chapter is the talk with Van Glower. He is just the best. Such an interesting character and acted so well. A charasmatic guy but with a lot of mystery.

And I guess I'm weird because I loved Leber's overacting! I think it's hysterical and adds a little comedy to this game which is more serious than the others IMO.

The scene with the media was classic Gabe and was the first time where I really felt that this Gabe was more like the Gabe in GK1 and 3.

Spoiler:
I also thought there was a great moment with Preiss where it shows how much Gabriel has changed as the result of the events of GK1. Preiss is asking Gabriel about the ladies and Gabe says that he must be sensing the past.

I can't wait for Chapter 4...I love Chapter 4!
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:15 PM   #146
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Thanks PhoenixWrong it worked! At least I can continue from Chapter 4. Is the first save game that appears on the list right? (cause it seems you used rather weird names lol )

So anyway like you guys say this is where the game really starts to pick up and shine. There's something that is not very clear for me that wanted to point out

Spoiler:
When Gabe mentions the Black Wolf and von Glower spills the wine.... Was this done on purpose to lead us to believe he was the black wolf? It always seemed to me that from this point on there wasn't a real mystery as to who the black wolf was, but just rather what was his history and if they were responsible for the killings, so I don't know if this was intended that way... Also after they continue their conversation he starts to talk about the club, their philosophy and becomes very defensive, everything but the black wolf question that Gabe asked, so all of this was rather weird. But I love this part anyway, I love the writing and of course von Glower
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:38 PM   #147
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Thanks a lot for translating the German bits. I find it quite interesting to know what they're saying when they know Gabriel doesn't know what they're saying.

Reinstalling it as we speak, but I'll be behind for awhile now, since Spring Break is coming next week, and I'll be gone from my computer for a week. But do continue!
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:01 PM   #148
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Yeah I finished Chapter 3 (finally) yesterday. That cuckoo clock puzzle was ridiculous! Bah. I hate to admit it but I had to use a walkthrough for that one - it was killing me! And when I saw what to do with it... I don't think I ever would have got it otherwise . I'm not sure it's anything to do with it being a particularly irrelevant puzzle, but I think it's possible I'm struggling with the puzzles a little more in the FMV interface that I'm not as used to.

That said, great chapter and completely agree about von Glower. Very interesting character and to me a clear stand out. Gabe's 5 minutes of fame with the press was great, very much what I've been waiitng for from Gabe in this game .

As a first time player it seems obvious that
Spoiler:
Zell (I think that's the name of the guy that's losing his temper?) is the wolf doing the killings, what with the book's description of changes in mood etc. Unless of course it's a red herring. Then there's von Glower's mask conveniently from Brazil where the book outlines the history of werewolves from that region...


Also a great intro vid for chapter 4. I swear I can remember that scene from trailers that were around at the time, seems very familiar...
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:48 PM   #149
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Thanks PhoenixWrong it worked! At least I can continue from Chapter 4. Is the first save game that appears on the list right? (cause it seems you used rather weird names lol )

So anyway like you guys say this is where the game really starts to pick up and shine. There's something that is not very clear for me that wanted to point out
Glad it worked! If it is grace in the castle bedroom, that should be it. Sorry about the save name, I'm notoriously bad at that

I did nothing in that chapter (besides watch the opening movie, which you can re-watch), so you should be all set!
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:19 AM   #150
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Finished Chapter 3 now.

I must agree with what's been said about Von Glower, interesting, mysterious and very well written and acted. One of the best characters in a game ever for my money.

Also, as Fien said previously, what is it about weird clock puzzles in GK games?!
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Old 03-09-2010, 03:21 AM   #151
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If I'm not mistaken, from the last few posts, everyone partecipating to the playthrough is now finished with Chapter Three, so...

... Chapter Four coming up in a couple of hours!
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:49 AM   #152
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Before delving into the beautiful Chapter Four, these are my thoughts about Chapter Three and, particularly, about the Hunting Club!


The Wolf's Club

As you may know, Jane Jensen's upcoming adventure, Gray Matter, will feature an ensemble cast of characters collectively known as The Lamb's Club. In the blog entry introducing this club, Jane wrote:

Quote:
Mysteries often have great ensemble casts. Think of Agatha Christie’s “And Then There Were None” and “Murder on the Orient Express”. Or, you know, Love Boat. I modeled my cast in “Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned” on this template. You have an isolated location, a fixed group of diverse people, and a reason to suspect each one of them. That’s inherently creepy.
The same concept can be easily adapted to Die Koniglich-Bayrische Hofiagdloge, and the club members are, in my opinion, the best supporting characters of the entire game. I'll take a look at each and everyone of them, posting my thoughts and impressions as I originally envisioned them during my first playthrough.

Hermann Von Aigner: owner of a large and successful butchering plant and a brewery, Von Aigner always struck me as the least likeable of the club's members. Slimy and shady, his behaviour always seemed to me like highly suspicious, especially when it comes to his reaction to Grossberg's name. More importantly, the fact that he usually hangs around Hennemann made me think of Von Aigner as a parvenu, a social-climber desperately trying to elevate himself out of his class (middle or grande bourgeoisie) and into an upper echelon of society.

Friedrich Von Glower: the Baron is my favorite amongst the club members. Better still, he's my favorite character of the game and, probably, of the entire Gabriel Knight series. He had me when he first appears and approaches Gabriel saying: "Gabriel. Like the angel" with his soft, charming voice. Handsome and alluring, Von Glower is a real gift of a character. When he explains the club's philosophy to Gabriel (more on this in the next paragraph), he's so passionate and enthralling that I, as a player, immediately felt a huge respect for the character, an almost reverential deference. Everything in his composure, in his attitude, in his polite manners speak of true nobility, of a long-forgotten noblesse oblige that was, in centuries past, the true mark of European aristocracy.

Frank Hennemann: when I think of Henneman, I always feel sad for him. I found him likeable from the very beginning, because - with his jovial attitudine and his love for beer, his seemingly inexhaustible good humor and his reddened complexion - he always seemed to me like an innocuous person, a true lamb ended up in an hunting club full of competitive people almost by a total fluke. He's good-natured and simple, and seems to care for little other than his beers and his lavish appetite. And isn't this harmless appearance what makes him a perfect suspect? During my first playthrough, I kept thinking: "He must hide something. Something big" and the fact that I couldn't figure out what his secret was, it's what Jane rightfully calls inherently creepy.

Stephan Klingmann: OK, let's get it out. I hate Herr Doktor. I always found him an unbearable, snobbish know-it-all with ridiculous pretensions and a pathetic walk-on member of the club, who was trying way too hard to emulate his betters, Von Glower in primis. When we see him during the end of Chapter Three, tossed around and about the club by the other members, quickly ditched in favor of more prominent members, Klingmann always seemed to me like the proverbial fish out of the water -- and I didn't feel the slightest pity for him.

Otto Preiss: my favorite after Baron Von Glower. Preiss is wonderful. What's not to like about him? He's excessive and sleazy, voracious and arrogant, suave and manipulating, mellifluous and wicked. His hedonistic approach to life is predatory and dangerous, his manners and apparels fancy and dainty -- and he has stunningly mesmerizing eyes! Jokes aside, I'd really like to know more about Preiss and I would have adored to see him in court, because he must be a real shark of a lawyer, a feared opponent for every prosecutor, and the questionable moral compass that must make him a legal eagle is what makes him another great suspect.

Garr Von Zell: while he's usually, at least amongst the Gabriel Knight community, the least favorite character of almost everyone, I like Von Zell. His fall from (Von Glower's) grace is a tragic one and I always found both evident and heart-wrenching his desperation and his hatred of Gabriel, who suddenly arrived at a club and took Von Glower's attention away from him, the former enfant prodige, the former favorite son, so to speak. I may be biased, but it always seemed clear that Von Zell was in love with Von Glower and that he couldn't come to term with Von Glower sudden indifference toward him.

Philosophy: Apollonian and Dionysian

This philosophical dichotomy has been brought to widespread acclaim by Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche in his work The Birth of Tragedy from the Spirit of Music (Die Geburt der Tragödie aus dem Geiste der Musik, 1872), whose first draft, interesting enough, he gifted to Cosima Wagner in 1870. In Greek mythology, Apollo is originally the patron numen of arts - especially poetry, music and dancing - and, as such, he was recognized as the head of the Muses. His first attributes, in fact, were the lire and the kithara, later joined by the bow and arrow, to symbolize not his hunting prowess, but his hard-and-fast justice, since he was his arrows to bring blights upon the lands whose people bothered the Olympian gods (i.e. Troy). In the late Hellenist period, he supplanted Helios as the god of Sun and, broadly speaking, of light. By extension of this metaphor, perhaps, he was also indentified as the patron numen of prophecy (hence the ritualistic tripod often associated with him), and defender of the Pythia of Delphi. Dionysus, on the other hand, is the god of ecstasy and pleasure. Often called "the god that comes", Dionysus or Bacchus (as he was known by the Romans) is also the deity of theatre and fiction. Most importantly, when he's called Eleuthérios, he's worshipped for the gift of ritual madness by which he frees his adepts from the strict boundaries of society. In Nietzsche's use of their dichotomy, the contrast between Apollo and Dionysus "symbolizes principles of wholeness versus individualism, light versus darkness, or civilization versus primal nature." The wikipedia page I linked has a nice comparative sheet of the attributes traditionally identified with the two deities, and even a quick look will tell you in which pole the Die Koniglich-Bayrische Hofiagdloge's philosophy falls.

After Chapter Six, I'll resume this dichotomy and talk about Camille Paglia's later take on the subject and about the inner struggle between these two extremes in many characters, especially Gabriel.

Occult Lore: On Vârcolaci

They have different origins; some say that they are the souls of unbaptised children, or of children of unmarried parents, cursed by God and turned into vârcolaci. [...] They attack the heavenly bodies, they bite the moon, so that she appears covered with blood, or till none of her is left. [...] When the spirit of the vârcolac wants to eat the moon, the man to whome the spirit belong begins to nod, falls into a deep sleep as if he had not slept for weeks, and remains as if dead. If he is roused or moved the sleep becomes eternal, for, when the spirit returns from its journey, it cannot find the mouth our of which it came, and so cannot go in.

I. Otescu, Beliefs of the Roumanian Peasant concerning the Sky and the Stars, translated by Agnes Murgoci in The Vampire in Roumania, in The Vampire: A Casebook, edited by Alan Dundes, The University of Winsconsin Press 1998, p. 24.

Note: vârcolaci are often considered the bridge between vampires and werewolves, and A. Murgoci writes: "It is curious that the word vârcolac, or vrykolaka, which is the general name for a vampire in Macedonia and Greece, is only exceptionally used to mean a vampire in Roumania, and usually means an animal which eats the moon. Vârcolac means werewolf, and in Roumania it is the wolf or animal signficance which predominates[/i]" (A. Murgoci, ivi, p. 25)

Chapter Three in the Novel

Gabriel hesitated. He ought to say no. He was on a case, after all, and he should review his tapes tonight, burn some little gray cells. Beside which, he really couldn't afford to get too personal with any of these men, not until the case was over. But the idea of going back to the cold, tragic heart of the Huber farm could not hold a candle to the warmth and luxury of Von Glower's living room, a cooked meal, even the effortless charm of the man himself.

Jane Jensen, Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within, Roc 1998, pp. 134

Stay tuned for Chapter Four!
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:12 AM   #153
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Thanks for the insight, Andrea!

I'm still playing Chapter 1 ( but don't wait up for me, I'm not going to catch up any time soon), and I had a few comments to put in.

I love the live action, which has its merits and annoyances. Between dialogue options, I love how the characters move about a bit, making the scene anything but static. But on the same coin, I hate when the dialogue is over, and there's an awkward few seconds of just staring at Gabriel before it goes back to the dialogue options. I always found that pretty awkward.

I felt sorry for Thomas, since Gabriel uses him for his own means. I know most adventure heroes do this, but it always makes me feel sorry for the used characters, and makes me wonder what happened to them afterwards.

What you were saying Andrea, I actually liked Klingmann a lot. He seems so knowledgable, and although he doesn't hold a candle to Von Glower, he's still a favorite. And I did always think Von Zell had a thing for Von Glower, too.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:05 AM   #154
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Very interesting take on chapter 3 and the club members, Andrea. I fervently disagree with most of your opinions. Amazing. I would post more, but I don't want to spoil anybody's fun. It'll keep.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:10 AM   #155
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Very interesting take on chapter 3 and the club members, Andrea. I fervently disagree with most of your opinions. Amazing. I would post more, but I don't want to spoil anybody's fun. It'll keep.
But I'm curious now
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:14 AM   #156
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Actually, I also have a different take on a couple of characters but it's far too spoileriffic to be posted yet!
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:34 AM   #157
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But I'm curious now
Indue time, my dear Andrea, in due time.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:49 AM   #158
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Actually, I also have a different take on a couple of characters but it's far too spoileriffic to be posted yet!
Wait, just be clear. What I posted were my thoughts on the characters when I originally played the game without knowing what was going on! My current thoughts of them are sometimes very dissimilar to what I posted...
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:37 AM   #159
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But on the same coin, I hate when the dialogue is over, and there's an awkward few seconds of just staring at Gabriel before it goes back to the dialogue options. I always found that pretty awkward.
Yeah he always fidgets around and smirks. It is very annoying and unnatural. I would much prefer it to just cut off when they are done talking. I did not notice it so much with Grace though.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:45 AM   #160
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just finished chapter 3 and well i must say the club is interesting, the chacters i agree with andrea but i feel some of them are holding back. i think zell for example is worried about all these new members first the zoo and then gabriel, what can glower be up to.

the policeman lauber i get a feeling when we asked about the black wolf that he was begining to take a shine to gabriel but then as we leave the video goes to cold hard and generally pissed lauber.

the clock well i got that it would be needed but it took me half an hour just to pay for it i keep forgetting we have a wallet with money in it lol. i had to cheat alittle with where it went to.

on another point whats gabes shooting like then, 1st time players place your bets now. lol
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