Adventure Gamers - Forums

I belong to the group of people that believe that there really was no need for a second game, that the story was pretty much told in the first and the rest better left to our own imagination.
Don’t get me wrong I also liked the sequel, and are looking forward to the third, but I would have been just as happy if Sokal had stopped after the first and made some other games instead.

Ha! I never thought of it this way. That some people were quite happy with the end of Syberia I find interesting. I guess this is the mark of a good game.

The fact that Syberia sold well would of course mean a second game would be made. And in this case - actually planned from the beginning.

We are perhaps getting a bit ahead of ourselves, as we are no where near the end yet. So I will wait to explain why I felt the sequel wasn’t needed till the end of this playthrough.

Train arrived at Barrockstadt this morning. Aimlessly wandering around. I vaguely recall not liking this segment because of the endless walking (there’s that word again) between the aviary and the University.

Becky - 10 September 2014 08:16 PM

There is an increasing aura of decline about this world. It’s as though the places Kate visits are out of sync with modernity. Things break, and no one knows how to repair them, and no one tries to figure it out, either. The aviary’s caretaker is letting the populations die without lifting a finger to change that. The rectors are so stuck on tradition they can’t make a logical decision. No one will leave their post to help Kate—it’s against their (self-made) rules.

Is this supposed to speak to current-day reality in some way?

Maybe not current day reality, but possibly fall of Berlin Wall reality. That reality was that Eastern Europe couldn’t sustain itself either technologically or financially. And so Kate finds herself at a point in time where only an outside (Western) influence can cure what ails Barrockstadt. I read in some article somewhere that this was Sokol’s vision of tearing down the Berlin Wall. Think of what happens next. The wall that must be breached before civilization can proceed!

Becky - 10 September 2014 08:16 PM

There is an increasing aura of decline about this world. It’s as though the places Kate visits are out of sync with modernity. Things break, and no one knows how to repair them, and no one tries to figure it out, either. The aviary’s caretaker is letting the populations die without lifting a finger to change that. The rectors are so stuck on tradition they can’t make a logical decision. No one will leave their post to help Kate—it’s against their (self-made) rules.

Is this supposed to speak to current-day reality in some way?

I chuckled at Kate’s response when the barge operators dwelt on how much money she made as a lawyer.  “Can we change the subject? I really don’t want to go down this road.”

rtrooney - 10 September 2014 08:36 PM

Maybe not current day reality, but possibly fall of Berlin Wall reality. That reality was that Eastern Europe couldn’t sustain itself either technologically or financially. And so Kate finds herself at a point in time where only an outside (Western) influence can cure what ails Barrockstadt. I read in some article somewhere that this was Sokol’s vision of tearing down the Berlin Wall. Think of what happens next. The wall that must be breached before civilization can proceed!

I do think that somehow there is a parallel with today’s world, where there is still a lot of people trapped in their traditions and ways of thinking and very few willing to really help you, but caught up in excuses. Which is not to deny that there are maybe some reference also to the fall of the wall at Berlin, but I think it goes beyond that.

I don’t think Kate is there to influence or cure anything or change their proceedings or tear down walls, and I do not think the Western can or should cure anything, (which also would suppose that they have the recipe for a “better world” which is not true). It is a journey in which she is the one being influenced and not the other way, a influence such a powerful that changes her life where her outlook on life and the little things acquire a different dimension, suddenly her former life no longer means the same, thence her refusal to talk about money, because she feels that’s not important now.The little things are more important now, and are those that we have ignored, the money and all the trappings of modernity can not fill certain gaps. I’m sure Kate was feeling very accomplished with her life before embarking on this trip to Valadine, only to discover that it was not, she was so far from that.

I’m thinking too much about all this, I better stop. : )

Renacimiento - 10 September 2014 10:01 PM

It is a journey in which she is the one being influenced and not the other way

True!
Unlike most other Adventure Games, Kate is not on a mission to save the world, and she won’t change, cure or better anything at all. Instead it is or becomes a more personal journey for Kate, and the journey that changes Kate.

Becky - 10 September 2014 08:16 PM

Is this supposed to speak to current-day reality in some way?

Yes - At least as I see it.
The Barrockstadt Wall is of course a reference to the Berlin Wall, and the Cossack enemy which turns out to be only a mirage, a reference to the fact that the Russians are no longer a thread even if some might still think so, or perhaps that they were never as big a thread as they were made out to be? And the opening of the wall at the end of this chapter a symbol off the fall of the Berlin wall.

It is also worth noting that even though the decay becomes worse the further east she travels, then it starts already in France with the decay in the small village and the automaton factory, or even in New York with an international toy company that wants to buy an old family owned business, only so they can attach their cheap plastic toys to a renowned brand. So it is not like anyone is free from critique from Sokal, it is the whole world he is commenting on.

What I do like about this is that it is not made as a political manifest, nor is he offering any solutions. It is not like Kate is here to fix the world or has any preconceived ideas or ideologies of how it should be fixed, and whatever she does fixes for her own reasons, will soon become undone and fall into decay again. Despite of all the political undertones and symbolism it is still a story of one woman’s journey and metamorphism.

In fact it reminds me of his other game Paradise (here I go again), where he does the very same thing. The only difference is that this time it takes place in Africa, and deals with issues of civil war, brutal dictators etc, but it is still about a personal journey for the protagonist.

Edit: Also note that Barrockstadt is still west of the Wall, we haven’t travelled into eastern Europa yet, so the decay in Barrockstadt represents the decay in western (central) Europa.

Iznogood - 11 September 2014 09:53 AM

What I do like about this is that it is not made as a political manifest, nor is he offering any solutions. It is not like Kate is here to fix the world or has any preconceived ideas or ideologies of how it should be fixed, and whatever she does fixes for her own reasons, will soon become undone and fall into decay again. Despite of all the political undertones and symbolism it is still a story of one woman’s journey and metamorphism.

Well, Kate may not be there to fix anything, but the game cannot progress until she does fix a few things. Does she leave behind what she leaves behind in better shape than when she arrived? Probably not in Valadilene. In Barrockstadt? Marginally. We know that Valadilene will likely cease to exist within a year or two. As the sole means of transportation to Barrockstadt is on a one-way trip, it, too, will likely die.

Iznogood - 11 September 2014 09:53 AM

Edit: Also note that Barrockstadt is still west of the Wall, we haven’t travelled into eastern Europa yet, so the decay in Barrockstadt represents the decay in western (central) Europa.

Quite true. I think of it as the equivalent of West Berlin that, while still better off than East Berlin, was surrounded by East Germany, and was far worse off than those who lived in West Germany.

No chapter illustrates the East/West dichotomy more than this one does. But we should probably move on. Even though the political implications evident in the game beg for additional discussion, that could take over the discussion. Which would not be a good thing.

Iznogood - 11 September 2014 09:53 AM

Unlike most other Adventure Games, Kate is not on a mission to save the world, and she won’t change, cure or better anything at all. Instead it is or becomes a more personal journey for Kate, and the journey that changes Kate.

I think we will disagree here. Kate’s mission is to find Hans so that she can complete her corporate objective. But her way to finding him requires saving some entities along the way. It may turn into a “more personal journey” later in the game. But at Barrockstadt, it’s still corporate survival.

Iznogood - 11 September 2014 09:53 AM

Renacimiento - 10 September 2014 10:01 PM

It is a journey in which she is the one being influenced and not the other way

True!
Unlike most other Adventure Games, Kate is not on a mission to save the world, and she won’t change, cure or better anything at all. Instead it is or becomes a more personal journey for Kate, and the journey that changes Kate.

 

Yes, and that’s what makes this game something “special” I think, at least it is for me, it’s not about saving the world or become in “heroes”, such issues that I personally dislike a lot. Instead, it is something more intimate and personal.

rtrooney - 11 September 2014 09:32 PM

I think we will disagree here. Kate’s mission is to find Hans so that she can complete her corporate objective. But her way to finding him requires saving some entities along the way. It may turn into a “more personal journey” later in the game. But at Barrockstadt, it’s still corporate survival.

It is true that initially the aim of Kate is fulfill her corporate mission, but even before she met Hans the journey has already taken a more personal meaning for her, through all the experiences that she goes through.

Kate’s mission is to find Hans so that she can complete her corporate objective. But her way to finding him requires saving some entities along the way.

At this point in the game, Kate is on a corporate mission - one she has been instructed to complete by upper management or never set foot in New York until it has been accomplished.

To me, this whole world has a steampunk look and feel, as if you are visiting a civilization that has seen better days and one of the reasons I thought the game superior when it was released.

rtrooney - 11 September 2014 06:57 PM

... But we should probably move on. Even though the political implications evident in the game beg for additional discussion, that could take over the discussion. Which would not be a good thing.

It is not about our own political views but about the symbolism and the political undertones in the game, how they should be interpreted and what Sokal meant by it, so as long as everybody is aware of this and don’t turn it into a political discussion, then I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t discuss it.

It is also rather hard to avoid, especially when the first thing the game does in the Komkolzgrad chapter, is to throw a hammer and sickle right in our face:

(Click to see full size image)

All this talk about the Berlin Wall has also made me reminiscence a school trip I had in 9th grade to Berlin, both west and east, a few years before the Berlin Wall fell, and driving through Checkpoint Charlie into east Berlin felt almost exactly like arriving in Komkolzgrad.

One of the things I remember best is the very sharp contrast between west and east. On one side you had west Berlin which was a pulsating metropolis with large bright billboards, shops with everything you could possibly want, loads of traffic and a vibrant nightlife with discos and nightclubs, and then when you came to the east it was like you had arrived in not just a different country, but on a completely different planet.

There were still ruins and many visible scars after WWII, and everything was just a depressing brown in brown without any other colours whatsoever, there was even a thin brown smog in the air that you could almost taste, from burning brown coal I presume. There were large broad roads but not a single car on the roads, there where not a single shop window to be seen anywhere, in fact the only two places I remember seeing where you could buy anything at all, was a petrol-station and the “restaurant” where we had lunch, and when it became dark the only light was from a few sparsely placed streetlights. All in all it was the most depressing and unfriendly place on earth I have ever seen.

rtrooney - 11 September 2014 09:32 PM

I think we will disagree here. Kate’s mission is to find Hans so that she can complete her corporate objective. But her way to finding him requires saving some entities along the way. It may turn into a “more personal journey” later in the game. But at Barrockstadt, it’s still corporate survival.

It is true that she is on a corporate mission, but that is only the plot-device used to place her on that train and give a reason for her journey, but is is not what the game is about, or the story that Sokal wants to tells us.

Sefir - you don’t actually say but I’m assuming you mean the end of this chapter is the arrival at Aralbad?

Iznogood - 12 September 2014 11:59 AM

rtrooney - 11 September 2014 06:57 PM

... But we should probably move on. Even though the political implications evident in the game beg for additional discussion, that could take over the discussion. Which would not be a good thing.

It is not about our own political views but about the symbolism and the political undertones in the game, how they should be interpreted and what Sokal meant by it, so as long as everybody is aware of this and don’t turn it into a political discussion, then I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t discuss it.

It is also rather hard to avoid, especially when the first thing the game does in the Komkolzgrad chapter, is to throw a hammer and sickle right in our face:

(Click to see full size image)

All this talk about the Berlin Wall has also made me reminiscence a school trip I had in 9th grade to Berlin, both west and east, a few years before the Berlin Wall fell, and driving through Checkpoint Charlie into east Berlin felt almost exactly like arriving in Komkolzgrad.

One of the things I remember best is the very sharp contrast between west and east. On one side you had west Berlin which was a pulsating metropolis with large bright billboards, shops with everything you could possibly want, loads of traffic and a vibrant nightlife with discos and nightclubs, and then when you came to the east it was like you had arrived in not just a different country, but on a completely different planet.

There were still ruins and many visible scars after WWII, and everything was just a depressing brown in brown without any other colours whatsoever, there was even a thin brown smog in the air that you could almost taste, from burning brown coal I presume. There were large broad roads but not a single car on the roads, there where not a single shop window to be seen anywhere, in fact the only two places I remember seeing where you could buy anything at all, was a petrol-station and the “restaurant” where we had lunch, and when it became dark the only light was from a few sparsely placed streetlights. All in all it was the most depressing and unfriendly place on earth I have ever seen.

rtrooney - 11 September 2014 09:32 PM

I think we will disagree here. Kate’s mission is to find Hans so that she can complete her corporate objective. But her way to finding him requires saving some entities along the way. It may turn into a “more personal journey” later in the game. But at Barrockstadt, it’s still corporate survival.

It is true that she is on a corporate mission, but that is only the plot-device used to place her on that train and give a reason for her journey, but is is not what the game is about, or the story that Sokal wants to tells us.

Oh so true - I really like this game on the iPad - the graphics are shockingly good

As to the true plot to me and just me this game setup the 2nd game and it’s finale perfectly when I finished syberia 2 I felt this story was very complete and one of the best I’ve ever experienced in a computer game.