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The Cave
I always love discussions on what an adventure is and whats not, especially when by those damning words even the crowning games in the genre can be said to not be an adventure game. lol
Looking back on Adventure gaming, mainly Sierra. Adventure games weren’t made to fit in a small niche of gameplay. If you look at Sierras Catalogue, the whole goal was to provide unique experiences for unique stories. Not to show the world that Adventures can only be Point n Clicks. Look at Manhunter, look at Gold Rush. There are so many stories told by Sierra. That said, who the hell cares about some strict guidelines that define an adventure game?
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
Or because they’ve seen it in person…
Other people have also seen it in person and have a different opinion.
He didn’t say it was the first game that had little figures running around. He said this:
Read your own text again. That’s called implying, just like I said.
The people he’s describing probably didn’t consider King’s Quest an adventure game, either
Who are those awful people, I wonder? I have never met them. Not in real life (in the late 80s I knew many people who played adventures), and later not on-line either. I remember the uproar of disappointed fans when action-adventure KQ8 was released and Sierra had lied about downplayed the action part. So in between the uproar about MM’s graphics/animations/verbs and KQ8 a lot of those text adventure fanatics saw the light, or something?
But, personally, I’m tired of people putting words in Ron’s mouth and accusing him of lying to adventure gamers.
I’ve read your preview carefully. Several times. His statements show contempt for adventure fans. And I don’t want to “broaden” my definition of an adventure game if that means I have to run, jump and swing my way through his game. I’ve done a fair share of platforming and I’m through with it. Verbs instead of text input was an innovation, but here’s absolutely nothing innovative about platforming.
He’s a game designer who has put a lot of work and passion into making a game that he hopes people will like playing, whatever genre they feel like it fits into. This is not some big conspiracy.
Who’s putting words in whose mouth now?
Now playing: ——-
Recently finished: don’t remember
Up next: Eh…
Looking forward to: Ithaka of the Clouds; The Last Crown; all the kickstarter adventure games I supported
Who’s putting words in whose mouth now?
Based on that quote? Obviously you have no idea what your talking about or what Ron has said or done.
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
Who’s putting words in whose mouth now?
Based on that quote? Obviously you have no idea what your talking about or what Ron has said or done.
Heh. Good old Monolith. Obviously you have misunderstood me. I was talking to fov, who put the word “conspiracy” in Fien’s and other people’s mouth.
Now playing: ——-
Recently finished: don’t remember
Up next: Eh…
Looking forward to: Ithaka of the Clouds; The Last Crown; all the kickstarter adventure games I supported
....
About platforming this game also has mouse controls.
And while all the platform elements are kept extremely easy.
So only stuff you really need to do is solving puzzles like old adventures so whats the difference if you move to item and click button or click on item and character moves there for you.
I’ve read your preview carefully. Several times. His statements show contempt for adventure fans.
Well, I had a face-to-face conversation with him, and I didn’t pick up on any contempt for adventure fans whatsoever. So let’s agree to disagree.
I think developers often feel a little caged in by genre definitions, because they take being rejected from that genre as being rejected by that audience, and it’s not really true.
I don’t consider The Cave an adventure game, but I have it pre-ordered, and it appeals to me as a fan of adventure games. Similarly, I don’t consider the Zelda games to be RPGs, but I think they’re something many RPG fans would (and do) embrace.
I think it’s cool that this community embraces games that in some way build on adventure fundamentals like LA Noire and Portal. That doesn’t mean we have to re-write what the genre is to include these games, it just means there’s life outside of the walls of genre definitions.
I think what Ron is offering is not an adventure game as a graphic adventure, but what we have lost in this genre, the fact of creating worlds not telling stories. I mean; right now we always find lineal stories, and two decades ago what we had was worlds to explore… I don’t know if I explain myself.
For the record, what Cave reminds me is to that precious game for spectrum
Then we didn’t want stories, we needed another place to fly away.
I think developers often feel a little caged in by genre definitions, because they take being rejected from that genre as being rejected by that audience, and it’s not really true.
I don’t consider The Cave an adventure game, but I have it pre-ordered, and it appeals to me as a fan of adventure games. Similarly, I don’t consider the Zelda games to be RPGs, but I think they’re something many RPG fans would (and do) embrace.
I think it’s cool that this community embraces games that in some way build on adventure fundamentals like LA Noire and Portal. That doesn’t mean we have to re-write what the genre is to include these games, it just means there’s life outside of the walls of genre definitions.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m excited about The Cave but by the looks of it I still think it seems more like a puzzle platformer than an adventure game - and that’s alright!
I think developers often feel a little caged in by genre definitions, because they take being rejected from that genre as being rejected by that audience, and it’s not really true.
I don’t consider The Cave an adventure game, but I have it pre-ordered, and it appeals to me as a fan of adventure games. Similarly, I don’t consider the Zelda games to be RPGs, but I think they’re something many RPG fans would (and do) embrace.
I think it’s cool that this community embraces games that in some way build on adventure fundamentals like LA Noire and Portal. That doesn’t mean we have to re-write what the genre is to include these games, it just means there’s life outside of the walls of genre definitions.
I like to define adventure games negatively. To me they are story-games without action or resource management (like RPG and strategy). This means there are no “fundamentals” except telling a tale. I think this was closest to what the developers tried to do originally in the 80s/early 90s. There were no limitations except technology, and the raw materials out of which “adventure” games could be made were tech and the imagination. I think that’s what developers are trying to do, and it seems that way reading the Cave preview. They don’t want to mention adventure games or include the Cave inside it, but that doesn’t mean any contempt for it, only that they don’t want to limit their imaginative possibilities.
What I don’t like is in running away from the things we imagine players don’t like we get games defined by simplification, “playability”, and nothing too stressful or difficult. Ron Gilbert says using verbs instead of text is an evolution because it’s more fun. Picking out items visually, playing with them verbally and finding out what they are and what they do through the parser was an activity that is now replaced by pixel hunting and waving the mouse to find items already picked out for you, as an “evolution”. So the potential for a whole other branch of interactivity is lost because we think typing text is annoying and primitive, which is untrue. People who don’t agree with Gilbert are stuck with modern “text adventures” and old Sierra games. (There are exceptions of course - eg Starship Titanic, which I believe wasn’t too popular)
Zifnab, Gilbert did say The Cave is an adventure. And text adventures (now called IF) as a genre have definitely evolved since the eighties, including parsers. The Starship Titanic parser was a disaster, frankly.
Now playing: ——-
Recently finished: don’t remember
Up next: Eh…
Looking forward to: Ithaka of the Clouds; The Last Crown; all the kickstarter adventure games I supported
I know they have evolved particularly in the much greater intelligence of the parser, which makes it even more disappointing that they have disappeared from graphic adventure games. The parser went one way and the new method the other, because of the attitude that it is, as Gilbert says, less fun.
True, it would be fun to see another valiant attempt like Starship Titanic.
Now playing: ——-
Recently finished: don’t remember
Up next: Eh…
Looking forward to: Ithaka of the Clouds; The Last Crown; all the kickstarter adventure games I supported
Here’s Ron Gilbert showing off about 45 minutes of The Cave gameplay to give you a better idea of what it is.
As the game is finally out i hope anyone would (please) post as soon as (s)he plaYs it, how is it so far .
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