Adventure Gamers - Forums

Lady Kestrel - 30 May 2015 09:30 PM

Izno,
I wasn’t sure if Robin was going to kill Milton or hug him.  That was also left to our imagination.

If it wasn’t for the screams then you might be right, but I don’t think that those screams leave much for our imagination, even if we don’t actually see it

Lady Kestrel - 30 May 2015 09:30 PM

The reporter also mentions a missing link and then the scene cuts to the mask.  His conclusions remind me of Asimov’s chapter headings at the end of his Foundation books: “The Answer That Satisfied” and “The Answer That Was True.” 

Yes, the reporter isn’t a 100% sure it is the full explanation, and Michael at the end of the main game, also states that he was unsure as to what had actually happened, so both has doubts, but they nevertheless look at this from two different angles.

rtrooney - 30 May 2015 10:08 PM

Totally disagree on almost everything. If Michael had not locked the door behind him, he would not have been able to escape. Robin was fast enough to catch the reporter. If it were not for Milton’s intervention, the reporter would be dead. Thus, the only person who could/would have freed Robin is Milton.

Michael slammed the door when he fled, but it is not entirely clear if he actually locks it or not, probably not. Regardless Robin had already almost finished his tunnel, so he could have and would have escaped anyway, and we also have the burglars who could have opened the door. I don’t think that Dr. Milton would have let Robin out.

Iznogood - 31 May 2015 11:06 AM

If it wasn’t for the screams then you might be right, but I don’t think that those screams leave much for our imagination, even if we don’t actually see it

I never heard any screams.  All I heard was Milton saying he came from his deathbed to see Robin one last time. That does make more sense now.  The old man had nothing to lose since he was dying anyway.

Iznogood - 31 May 2015 11:06 AM

Michael slammed the door when he fled, but it is not entirely clear if he actually locks it or not, probably not. Regardless Robin had already almost finished his tunnel, so he could have and would have escaped anyway, and we also have the burglars who could have opened the door. I don’t think that Dr. Milton would have let Robin out.

There is a short cut scene showing that the door was left unlatched, but you’re right that Robin scratched his way out anyway.  After all, that was the main theme of the game. 

I’m deleting this because I pushed the wrong button.  I meant to edit my previous post. 

I finished The Last Visit.

Sadly, my copy of Scratches was only the regular version, so I missed out on this. I just might buy the Director’s Cut and check out all the extras.

Izno,
I replayed the last visit just now and heard the screams.  I guess I just assumed they were coming from Robin, not Milton.  Still, the posture of the boy didn’t appear threatening, which is why I was undecided.  Having the doctor show up just at that moment was a bit of deus ex machina, but I didn’t mind.

I’m sure there’s something on YouTube that you can look at.

The extra 15 minutes of gameplay isn’t worth purchasing a whole new game.

Sefir - 01 June 2015 08:55 AM

rtrooney - 30 May 2015 04:13 PM

[/spoiler]5. The bonus chapter doesn’t clear up what actually happened to Blackwood or who’s body is in the crypt.

Well, since Catherine is buried in the garden and the labels in front of the coffins (that you probably missed) have the names James Blackwood and Catherine Blackwood, then we are supposed to believe that the dead body in the coffin is James’s.

Um….I didn’t miss them. In fact I specifically referred to them by saying that the names appeared on the tier holding the coffins, but not on the coffins themselves, as they do on every other coffin. (You probably missed that part of my comment, which was made earlier than comment you quoted.)

Sefir - 01 June 2015 08:55 AM

I think I agree with Lady K. I believe that it is Robin the one who gets totally surprised by the familiar face of his visitor in the end. The intimidating pose of the old man certainly makes me believe that he was not hurt by Robin and the screams were Robin’s all along.

Ehhh… try to watch that scene again - that is NOT happy screams or screams of surprise, they are the screams of someone being torn to death by teeth and hands! Besides the way Robin jumps at him, looks more like a predator going in for the kill, than someone who wants a hug

Sefir - 01 June 2015 08:55 AM

Except from a small theory that I have and still no clue presented up to now have broken it.

Occam’s Razor
[spoiler]That it was James Blackwood in the coffin, and Dr. Milton at the end of The Last Visit, is the simplest explanation that requires the fewest assumptions, therefore the one that must be considered most likely to be true, until proven otherwise.
There is no need for anyone to fake their own dead, put other people in someone else’s coffin or assume that everything the police and newspapers reported was false, when there is a much simpler explanations that explains everything.[/spoiler]

As for why the bank clerk was reluctant to give us the information, well he could simply be sceptical as to whether we truly are Dr. Milton, at first unsure and then hangs up when he is convinced that we not him.

The same really goes for Rtrooney’s hypothesis that it is the maid in the coffin. Not only does it also requires that James fakes his own dead, but also that James and Dr. Milton murdered the maid in cold blood, but there is really no indication that they are cold blooded killers that would do something like that, especially since she had already given her statement to the police. (They are not Al Capone in Chicago after all )

You are both correct that there is no smoking gun or other evidence that disproves your hypothesises, so they could be correct, they are just not the most likely explanations, at least not in my opinion - When you hear hoofs, look for horses not zebras! (Unless you are on a savannah in Africa)

I think you’re right about that scene, Izno.  I just wonder why the reporter never commented on what happened to Milton, and why didn’t he report it to the authorities if he witnessed a murder.  I guess it could have been shock, but it still leaves some loose ends.

I’m sure there’s something on YouTube that you can look at.

The extra 15 minutes of gameplay isn’t worth purchasing a whole new game.

OK, took your advice and watched the extras on youtube. Good stuff, but yes, not enough new material to buy a whole new game for.

Thanks for the tip - I did really enjoy it.

Iznogood - 01 June 2015 12:25 PM

The same really goes for Rtrooney’s hypothesis that it is the maid in the coffin. Not only does it also requires that James fakes his own dead, but also that James and Dr. Milton murdered the maid in cold blood, but there is really no indication that they are cold blooded killers that would do something like that, especially since she had already given her statement to the police. (They are not Al Capone in Chicago after all )

You are both correct that there is no smoking gun or other evidence that disproves your hypothesises, so they could be correct, they are just not the most likely explanations, at least not in my opinion - When you hear hoofs, look for horses not zebras! (Unless you are on a savannah in Africa)

Not to belabor this, but very little of what we know as fact is actually fact. When Michael asked Baily if he had personally seen any of the bodies that were reported to have died on the Blackwood Estate, he had to, very defensively, answer that he hadn’t. So I’m pretty sure we can discount the police reports. As for newspaper reports, they must be held in equal disregard. They did report deaths that didn’t actually occur, and/or deaths that didn’t occur in the manner they reported.

I don’t think that James and Milton were cold-blooded killers. But I do think that either, or both together were capable of murder if that was what was required to protect their reputations. James, to protect the image that he was incapable of fathering a child that was capable of killing its mother. Milton, to protect his image as a capable physician. The discovery of the true nature of Catherine’s death would have ruined both reputations.

Unfortunately, at least for the maid, the maid offered an easy solution. If buried in the crypt, she would lie there as Catherine. And Catherine’s true demise would never be found. Despite her statement to the police, there was also ample evidence of her desire to return home. If the police ever inquired about her whereabouts, the simple answer would be that she acted on her desires, and could now be found in Italy if the police wish to follow that lead.

Occam’s Razor is the inverse of the Sherlock Holmes dictum. Paraphrased…“Whatever is left, no matter how improbable, when everything else has been eliminated, must be the truth.”

Maybe we will see a post from Augustin in the near future that will solve some of these mysteries.

I’ve been following your thoughtful discussion. Brought to mind really good memories of similar debates in the old Nucleosys forums

Sorry (again again!) for not posting further comments, but I’ve prepared some things for you—including stuff that has never been discussed before. I should be posting a great deal of it tomorrow. Stay tuned!