[Squinky]

Originally Posted by No_doubtsy

Games like Shadow of the Colossus, Okami and Psychonauts should sell millions.

Games like those are the equivalent of quirky indie films - well-loved by critics, but not nearly as popular as all those effects-heavy blockbusters with derivative storylines that the mass market spends all its money on. I wouldn't necessarily say that these games should sell millions, mainly because they're not meant for everyone, but that they should at least be able to exist. Sadly, the fact that the industry is even more hit-driven than the film industry doesn't help things in that regard.

As for Okami, I still haven't played it yet. However, if it really is coming out for the Wii, it looks like I'd definitely be having an excuse to do so.

[MoriartyL]

Why would it be coming out for Wii, when Clover doesn't even exist anymore?

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Why would it be coming out for Wii, when Clover doesn't even exist anymore?

But Capcom owns the game, right? So Capcom could make it.

[MoriartyL]

Sure, they could. But I doubt they will. Don't go getting too hopeful, is all I'm saying. The hopeful rumors that it would come to Wii are just that.

[SoccerDude28]

I wish they would bring it to the Wii. This game deserves to be exposed to as many people as possible.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by No_doubtsy

Games like Shadow of the Colossus, Okami and Psychonauts should sell millions.

Originally Posted by Squinky

Games like those are the equivalent of quirky indie films - well-loved by critics, but not nearly as popular as all those effects-heavy blockbusters with derivative storylines that the mass market spends all its money on. I wouldn't necessarily say that these games should sell millions, mainly because they're not meant for everyone

But that's the thing. They're not particularly quirky. They are really quite crowd-pleasing in their design. They have great graphics, the gameplay is firmly based in traditional mechanics from platformers, action games and RPG-adventures, innovations are intuitive and introduced gradually, the stories follow a typical arc of increasing stakes and growing experience and power, the settings are no more eccentric than, say, Super Mario's. There's no obvious reason why they shouldn't have mass-market appeal. Or is it really all about the license?

[No_doubtsy]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

But that's the thing. They're not particularly quirky. They are really quite crowd-pleasing in their design. They have great graphics, the gameplay is firmly based in traditional mechanics from platformers, action games and RPG-adventures, innovations are intuitive and introduced gradually, the stories follow a typical arc of increasing stakes and growing experience and power, the settings are no more eccentric than, say, Super Mario's. There's no obvious reason why they shouldn't have mass-market appeal. Or is it really all about the license?

You took the words right out of my mouth. I agree 100% with you. I can’t imagine a gamer saying “What? I have to climb on the huge flying monster and kill him? Forget it! What a bore!”. There’s not much difference between Zelda, Okami and Psychonauts besides the way they look. Killer7 was quirky and weird (I loved it) so I can understand why it didn’t sell but all these games are like mass-market blockbusters / Games of the Year. I think publishers give up too fast and a lot of potential gamers don’t know these games exist. They only see shooters, sports game and stupid mini-games Ă* la Wii.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

the stories follow a typical arc of increasing stakes and growing experience and power, the settings are no more eccentric than, say, Super Mario's. There's no obvious reason why they shouldn't have mass-market appeal. Or is it really all about the license?

Licenses and franchises, yes. I've never heard about Okami until SoccerDude started this thread last year, but then I don't own a PS2 anyway. Thing is, I don't see this game as something with "mainstream*" appeal either. Not like that anyway. You don't really need to touch upon stuff like midiculous_dissection_of_gameplay_mechanics. I mean, what's that game about anyway?

Taken from wiki:

Set in the Nippon region in an unspecified time in the classical Japanese era, Ōkami combines several Japanese myths and legends to tell the story of how the land was saved from darkness by the Shinto sun goddess named Amaterasu, ...

Need we go on?

I love the style, which is based upon Japanese art, likely not something established in our Western culture of Big Whoppers, Ikea furnitures, plastic boobies and David Hasselhoff. But then, that's the ONLY thing that you can get a crasp of at once. The premise is hardly FIFA International Soccer, where I'm promised to lead my favourite team to win the Champions League, the World Cup, or whatever, but whee, if that isn't an esotheric idea and premise, I don't know what it is. It's Grim Fandango². I don't mean this as something negative, and if I had a PS2, this would be a game I'd look into. If only for the reason that I read about it in this thread (thanks SoccerDude) and made some more research (thanks almighty WWW) afterwards.


* I don't love that word, often it's (over)used in the context of elitist bullshit blanket statements, but more importantly, it always makes me giggle a bit if used in the context of video games. Since they are pretty much still firmly locked into their own "ghetto", so to speak anyway. For the most part, they are. No matter how much more "hardcore gamers" are out there regularly buying games than there were back then. But that's another thing.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Licenses and franchises, yes. I've never heard about Okami until SoccerDude started this thread last year, but then I don't own a PS2 anyway. Thing is, I don't see this game as something with "mainstream*" appeal either. Not like that anyway. You don't really need to touch upon stuff like midiculous_dissection_of_gameplay_mechanics. I mean, what's that game about anyway?

Taken from wiki:

Need we go on?

"Midiculous"?

The initial premise is actually pretty simple: A monster (a dragon with 8 heads, as it happens) has put a curse over the land (your average medieval-magical fantasy realm, but with a Japanese twist). You're a magic wolf, and you have to fight monsters, lift the curse and restore the power of nature.

Isn't that a pretty typical story for this kind of game? Yeah, there's a whole mythological component to it (as you said, you're not just a wolf, but the incarnation of the goddess Amaterasu) and other complications, but again: that's not exactly unusual for a genre that is all about elaborate backstory.

I really don't see that the setup is any more outré or esoteric than what you find in for example Zelda or Final Fantasy titles.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

Isn't that a pretty typical story for this kind of game? Yeah, there's a whole mythological component to it (as you said, you're not just a wolf, but the incarnation of the goddess Amaterasu) and other complications, but again: that's not exactly unusual for a genre that is all about elaborate backstory.

You're a wolf, the incarnation of a goddess and you're jumping around in a cell-shaded environment based on traditional Japanese art, fighting cell-shaded critters also based on traditional Japanese art. I dunno. I really didn't get the game until I read a couple of articles and looked further into it. And even then... I don't know. Right now I'm just really curious about it. And it looks beatiful.

I really don't see that the setup is any more outré or esoteric than what you find in for example Zelda or Final Fantasy titles.

Well, neither the Final Fantasy series nor Zelda is set up like that. You're playing characters you can identify with immediately, and there's nothing particularly "foreign" or "off" to the visuals or other content either. Young Link who goes on an adventure to rid his land of evil is hardly the same as that wolf/reincarnation of a Japanese goddess thing meets Japanese cel-shaded artwork. Same with Final Fantasy, the eight game is practically Dawson's Creek and the evil witches. It's also somewhat noteworthy and interesting that Final Fantasy didn't even take off in the West until it's seventh(!) installment came around, in part thanks to a fat marketing crusade. The first Zelda as one of Nintendo's early flag-ship titles surely was one of THE games to have on the NES, and even back then Nintendo was running TV adds. Plus, these two are established franchises by now, and you know how it goes with mammoth franchises like that... Since there are so many by now they will likely continue to overshadow most of everything, cause nobody wants to fork out 40 bucks for something that looks and sounds rather.. "vague". To put it that way. That comfort thing.

It's a little sad that games mostly cost so much, so much that even titles like "Okami" need to become semi-blockbusters to be considered worth an investment.

[zach]

My wife and I are closing in on 80 hours into this game. It's probably the most beautiful game I've ever played. We've been busying ourselves with sidequests for a while, to avoid reaching the end of the game. I basically bought a PS2 in order to play this game, Katamari, and Shadow of the Colossus.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by zach

My wife and I are closing in on 80 hours into this game. It's probably the most beautiful game I've ever played. We've been busying ourselves with sidequests for a while, to avoid reaching the end of the game. I basically bought a PS2 in order to play this game, Katamari, and Shadow of the Colossus.

Good taste You should also check out ICO and Beyond Good and Evil if you haven't already done so. I think they will probably match your taste.

[zach]

Thanks, and yes, I did pick up both of those. Plus Escape from Monkey Island, Indigo Prophecy, Psychonauts, and a few other random non-adventure related games. I'm just disappointed that Syberia for PS2 only came out in Europe, and I switched to Mac a few years ago. Maybe I'll get to play it when I get a MacBook.