[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

They're driving hazards under the control of hazardous drivers and they're perfectly legal.

*Any* car is dangerous in the control of a hazardous driver. Part of the problem with SUVs is that people let the illusion of safety from an SUV make them worry less about driving carefully... and the fact that an SUV requires different handling exacerbates the problem.

Originally Posted by Melanie68

For all the moron drivers out there I haven't been in an accident in ages. Driving is a lot about being aware of your surroudings. If you are going the speed limit and paying attention to others, you'll do fine most of the time.

True... just that there's already so much to keep track of while driving without idiot drivers adding to the problem.

Aside from his stupidity as a teen, every other time my roommate's been in an accident is because other people were reckless... and he's a careful driver who has good reflexes and spacial sense and such. I have poor reflexes, a poor spacial sense, and poor "eye focus" (hell, I can literally barely *walk* without bumping into something on a regular basis), so having to deal with reckless drivers on top of the usual road considerations makes me nervous.

In all honesty though, I'm just irritated at people who avoid speeding tickets by doing things like purchasing radar detectors, instead of just *slowing down* and always obeying the speed limits, which are there to make you safer.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[jjacob]

Over here that'd be one "strike". All drivers under 24 (including me) can get no more than three violations. Ofcourse if you're speeding 30 m/h above the speedlimit you're immediately toast (and lose your license) and they even confiscate your car (to prevent you from driving any further anyway).
However annoying a ticket may be, I'm happy with the near-zero-tolerance they have over here. I hate drunken drivers and I never drink more than is allowed if I'm driving later on that night (wouldn't want to lose my license, luckily I have no strikes). Apparently though, it works, and the Netherlands is now the second safest country in the world, after malta (..which doesn't have that much traffic for obvious reasons ). And I must say, compared to say France, drivers over here drive pretty well.

I'm not saying what you did was necessarily bad, but I can understand why you'd get a ticket. For all they knew, you were drunk out of your head and might hit someone or something later on. I can see why some would argue that "you'll do fine" if you're speeding, but those limits are based on the respective average braking/stopping distances, so you better believe you won't do fine speeding if you'd have to brake in an emergency

[lakerz]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

You know... it's people who prefer to avoid consequences by cheating the safety laws instead of by following them that make me so scared and reluctant to get my own driver's license. After all... even if I take steps to be safe by following the laws, chances are good I'll get into an accident anyway because people are asshole drivers. *sour look*

Accidents aren't always caused by speed you know. I'd say the number one cause of accidents is driver focus. Look at how many people are yapping away on their phones, putting on makeup, while also eating a sandwich and leaning to the backseat to tell their child to stop screaming, they can't hear their conversation on the phone! Now that, plus people neglecting maintenance on their car is what scares me. Combine all of those factors along with everybody buying 6,000 lb. SUV's is a recipe for disaster. All drivers need to focus on the road. Period.

So, no need to worry about me. I've spent more money that I care to think about on HPDE classes not to mention numerous track days. I only drive sporty cars that are nimble enough to avoid a lot of bad situations, and I'm smart enough to keep my high speed adventures on a closed course (or sometimes a nice twisty canyon road). Most importantly, I do my best not to get distracted on the road! Don't eat in the car (makes the insides messy anyway), don't use my cell phone in the car unless it's an emergency and for those rare times I have a hands free set. Always check the car out before driving anywhere, especially the tires.

Having said that, a good radar detector is important to me because a lot of cops have nothing better to do than target a nice looking sports car going 15 over the limit on the freeway or highway, even though said sports car is just following the flow of traffic!! Usually the CHP only messes with the punk driver that is constantly weaving in and out of traffic and tailgating people, etc. Sometimes though, they're looking at just generating money for the state.

[Melanie68]

I'm always scared of people who cut right in front of semis when they are changing lanes instead of making sure there's some distance. If that semi has to stop, you are toast.

[Spiwak]

Hey Jeysie, I see what you mean.

I consider myself a pretty safe driver, when I'm not asleep at the wheel.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

Your goin to JAIL MAN!

Just don't drop the soap.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by lakerz

Accidents aren't always caused by speed you know. I'd say the number one cause of accidents is driver focus.

I'd be willing to agree with that thought. Nevertheless, even if you are focused, the faster you are going, the less time you have to react to a change in the road, obviously.

On a freeway where lanes are generally straight, the existing flow patterns clearly delineated, and changes in the flow of traffic usually measured and warned about ahead of time, you have a bit more wiggle room (well, in a practical sense, anyway, if not in a legal sense). Other than that, most roadways aren't designed for speed.

My roommate's never gotten a speeding ticket... at least, not in the 8 years I've known him, even though he doesn't have a radar detector. Why? Because he doesn't speed. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. Speed too much if one likes, but I don't approve of buying a radar detector, and I shan't be sympathetic if one gets fined or worse.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Maquisard]

When it comes to safety, there are more vital traffic laws out there--like alcohol blood content, red lights and stop signs. In my experience, the speed limit is set at the lowest common denominator--the speed at which the most incompetend driver could drive safely. Supposedly, the speed limit is what you should drive in ideal conditions, but it's more like what you should drive when it's nighttime, with heavy rain. That's how I choose to understand it, anyway.

I like how in Montana, drivers can obey the intent of the law, and drive at a "reasonable" speed. I wish we had laws like that around here. Or at least, I would like to be able to take another driving test and qualify for a "may drive faster" driver's license.

[Jeysie]

Mares: I don't buy it. My mom's a pretty crappy driver, and she starts getting into trouble at about 15 MPH under the freeway speed limit. And having been a passenger in nighttime rains (and various snows, for that matter), driving at the full speed limit is ill advised in poor weather as well. Unless you've got some really slow speed limits in your neck of the woods, I think that speed limits are in fact for ideal conditions, no "supposedly" about it.

Also, your "there's more important safety laws" comment springs from an incorrect assumption. The reason I'm focusing on speeding laws is because that is the topic of this thread. However, I care equally about *all* traffic laws being followed. The others just aren't currently being discussed.

(Though I could be irritating and point out that obeying the speed limit does make it easier to follow the red light and stop sign laws...)

I don't really understand why people seem to get so defensive about not following the rules. If a law is unfair, then that's one thing. But traffic safety laws are designed for your own good. It's not going to kill you to be a careful driver and maybe take a few extra minutes to get someplace... but it might kill you (or someone else) to disobey the laws just to shave a bit of time off your travel. I've seen more than enough accident aftermaths to know that.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[lumi]

I don't mind speeding, but people often forget a few things to keep in mind when doing it. Don't tailgate, slow down if you're going through a blind corner, and pay attention to what's on your sides. Speeding is fine, but learn to adjust it to your situation.

[SoccerDude28]

To me what is more dangerous than speeding is morons who go 40 miles per hour on a 65 mph freeway because they are most probably scared shitless to drive on freeways. I had 2 very close calls, because some person in front of me was driving at that speed.

Or idiots who drive on freeways and change lanes, without looking for the blind spot. I'd rather take the speeding cars anytime of the day. At least those speeding cars in most cases KNOW how to drive.

[seebaruk]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

To me what is more dangerous than speeding is morons who go 40 miles per hour on a 65 mph freeway because they are most probably scared shitless to drive on freeways.

Exactly. Loads of accidents are caused by dozy tossers driving so slow they force people doing the limit to overtake, leading to dangerous situations. And, of course, these slow sods are almost always old people. Just 2 weeks ago some geezer who looked about 90 was plodding along at just over 30mph on a single carriageway (limit 60mph) to Norwich. There was a huge tailback behind him, and people had to veer into oncoming traffic to get past him. Ban old people, they suck!

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by seebaruk

Just 2 weeks ago some geezer who looked about 90 was plodding along at just over 30mph on a single carriageway (limit 60mph) to Norwich. There was a huge tailback behind him, and people had to veer into oncoming traffic to get past him.

And that situation resulted in how many accidents?

...

Exactly.

Loads of accidents are caused by dozy tossers driving so slow they force people doing the limit to overtake, leading to dangerous situations.

Overtaking is arguably the most dangerous manoeuvre, true. Still, WTF? The slow driver isn't *forcing* you to do this. It's your conscious decision that you can't be bothered to drive that slow. (That doesn't include highways, where there actually is a minimal velocity you should be going with - in some countries, at least). And if you meant that you don't have enough time to slow down after you spot the "dozy tosser", then you in fact *were* driving too fast, no matter what the road signs said.



And, frankly, (that's addressed not just at seebaruk, but all), what do I care that drunken drivers, SUV drivers, 90-year old drivers or alien spaceships cause ten times more accidents, assuming that was true? Exceeding the speed limit is a bloody irresponsible thing to do and greatly decreases the safety of everyone on the road. Simple.

[seebaruk]

Speeding can be a dumb thing to do, true, I'm not disputing that. But come on man, you're on a long single carriage road and get stuck behind some slow twat. A journey that should take an hour will take 2 if you stay behind them. Are you honestly saying you'd just stay behind them the whole way? If you are you're a liar. Slow people force others to perform dangerous maneouvres, and while in that case I didn't see any accident, it does cause them every single day. If you think that ain't true, you's ignorant boy!

[Lucien21]

Slow people force others to perform dangerous maneouvres

Bollocks.

Slow people only force idiots to make dangerous maneouvers.

Normal people wait until a safe section to pass.

[seebaruk]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

Bollocks.

Slow people only force idiots to make dangerous maneouvers.

Normal people wait until a safe section to pass.

Bollocks back mate.

You can think that it's perfectly safe to overtake and start to perform the manoeuvre safely, without speeding etc. Then a car comes out of a blind alley and smack. That's how my dad got into a road accident and lost an eye and almost his life. And even if an accident was caused by someone making a dangerous maneouvre, sure they're to blame, but if they hadn't of performed that meneouvre if someone wasn't driving ridiculously slow then so is the slow driver.

Fast drivers don't force people to change speed and lanes like slow drivers. It's been proven that the slowest drivers cause the most accidents, and they frustrate and anger normal drivers who are then more likely to get into an accident. There's stats around to back this up, and yet still some ignorant people defend slow drivers, I just don't get it! I'm not condoning speeding or driving dangerously here, I'm saying that slow drivers are just as dangerous as fast drivers, and anyone who says otherwise has their head up their arse.

http://www.sense.bc.ca/disc/disc-05.htm

[RLacey]

Yes, slow drivers are annoying - and if they drove like that in a test they'd actually fail for being too hesitant - but that's never an excuse for reckless driving. Never. I have sympathy for your father; the car driving out of the blind alley obviously wasn't looking, but the slow driver him/herself wasn't the cause of the accident. The accident was cause by your father's decision to overtake next to a blind alley coupled with the stupidity of the driver coming out of it.

Oh, and I personally have absolutely zero sympathy for people that get caught speeding. Yes, the police occasionally set up roadblocks in annoying places in a deliberate attempt to catch people, but that doesn't change the fact that, by speeding, one is breaking the law. It's perfectly possible to drive at the limit without breaking it.

[Sage]

I drive at or just below the speed limit. Tickets are expensive, and I can't afford them. I keep to the far right-hand lane whenever possible so as not to impede traffic flow, yet even when the passing lanes are empty there is frequently some wank who insists on riding my back bumper.
If it's raining, I slow down even more. On several occasions some butthead has blown past me on a rain-slicked highway only to wind up in an accident a mile or two further on down the road. I'd like to think this taught them a lesson, but...it's not unusual at all for people who pull out in front of me without looking to already have a huge dent on their car exactly where I would have hit them if I hadn't stopped in time! Apparently, the cause/effect relationship of such things isn't obvious to some people.

[lakerz]

Well put Scott, people just don't think of the cause/effect of their actions. I really do think everyone should be forced to take a defensive driving class as well as a high performance class to understand how to properly interpret the actions of everyone else on the road as well as how your car responds to certain things.

[Sage]

Thanks Lakerz!
I've taken a high-performance driving class, but I don't think it did me much good. I wound up with the second slowest overall time out of about thirty students, but at least I didn't take down a single cone.