Adventure Gamers - Forums

Sorry for the lack of quoting, got ADD and sometimes focus gets lost even mid sentence :-)

Now claiming Age of Conan is a bad game is just plain wrong, it had launch problems, lack of content, but most of this is fixed now. It might be because of the reputation it got when it launched that hurt it soo, but even though if Age of Conan can’t make money on f2p, why should TSW do ?

Beta is not even close to released product, even from the last beta weekend there was huge changes, changes to characters has even happened multiple times after launch.
Adding more debt to them.

I believe F2P has a market, but the game needs to be extremely popular, or else you end up with a game only making enough to keep the servers alive and some staff.

GrEeKiNnOvaTiOn - 31 August 2012 09:12 AM

Well maybe Age of Conan is in better shape right now but people wont wait for a game to get fixed,patched up in order to play it.When a game comes out,people watch some reviews on the internet and they decide if they will buy it or not…

Game was highly rated, it had over 1 mill. players and they did contact these informing them of the changes to F2P, but it has never earned as much as when it was launched.
It earns some money but i think a sub base of 100K users would make them more money than the F2P model.

GrEeKiNnOvaTiOn - 31 August 2012 09:12 AM

I watched some reviews but I didnt see any big difference from beta compared to the actual product.Can you point out some?For example the fighting system still is a WoW clone.

Not played WoW much, but yes it is similar, but in my opinion the ability system requires you to think much more about what skills are needed and how the effects are beneficial too each other.
I would compare it more to a “Magic the Gathering” deck, where the best monster/spell doesn’t do you much good if the condition are wrong.

When/if you play it enough you will be able to have every skill and ability and the combination of these are staggering.
Depending on when you played the beta there has been many changes large and small, most related to animations and mechanics, but many of the investigations where locked in the beta, some of them are brilliant.

GrEeKiNnOvaTiOn - 31 August 2012 09:12 AM

For example Dungeon and Dragons Online isnt anything special either but as soon as it gone f2p (it has one of the best f2p models I have ever seen) it got an massive increase in subscription numbers and it still brings much money to the company.

Based on a quick check this has gotten rewards for it’s F2P model, but it was also P2P first for about 4.5 years before going F2P. D&D is also a really strong brand.

7.5/10 on average means highly rated?Since when?And because it started with 1 mill it doesnt mean that it kept that number.Its logical that when a MMO launches it will get a big number of subs but the big question is:Can that MMO maintain those numbers?

Age of Conan on release had 20+ reviews with or over 80 in score, and a few lower.
None below average, and it was quite popular, even was a huge part of a Big Bang Theory episode.

It had over 1 mill. people to contact about the F2P change, many of them would try it free.
It is as I have heard still quite active, but it doesn’t and it will never get the same amount as F2P.

This is a numbers game, and when you have a game that can make it decent with 200K subs or gamble on getting 2 mill F2P players.

I wasnt talking about the depth of the combat system(because in the beta I didnt have the chance to experience it myself),I was talking about the actual combat.And my problem with the combat is that it isnt any fun.Its boring and it doesnt require that much of actual skill.It just requires stragety.

Thats a step to the right direction.And I sorry but if I have to withstand a boring combat system until later in the game ,in order to unlock those combinations you mentioned,that ruins all the fun for me.

Well I found the combat fun, but then again not the most active MMORPG player and my experience with the genre is limited at best.

But the challenge of the game changes quickly, and actually there is are some people complaining about the difficulty of the game being to hard just after the second zone, most are WoW players and when they are given a few pointers they get the hang of it.

Based on a quick check this has gotten rewards for it’s F2P model, but it was also P2P first for about 4.5 years before going F2P. D&D is also a really strong brand.

Yeah but dont forget that back then f2p wasnt something really common and noone really knew if it could work out.There werent that many f2p games.On the other hand nowdays there many f2p games that doing really good.Also think about what you said.D&D is a strong band.So a big name couldnt keep up the p2p model and a new IP like Secret World will?Honestly I dont really think so.

They had Subs for 4.5 years, it’s not like they couldn’t keep up with the P2P model,
it’s the difference between selling you the latest IPhone or trying to sell you a 4.5 year old mobile for almost the same amount.

TSW has had 1month of P2P, since the first one is included, and people are claming it’s F2P soon, even SWTor had almost a year of P2P.
And they aren’t actually going full out F2P, it’s more like the same F2P model WOW has.. an extended trial sort of.
Also they had a game that got millions of people, then lost them fast..
TSW has 200K people and getting more each day.

And you claim all these F2P sucesses, but really how many are there that doesn’t cather to the same group.
Ie: Innovation, storytelling are absent and anything that has a challenge you can pay to pass.

You can find a few MMORPG games that made it good with F2P, but most are barely earning enough to keep the servers alive.

And dont think that I hate this game so much.It was actually the only MMO I was looking forward to(even if I really wanted it to be a single player experience) but it failed to impress me and make me like it when I tried it and it still fails to this day.

:sarcasme: Now how could I get such an impression? :sarcasme:

But why not just try those 3 days, and do some quests (like 30+) which would give you 2 more days.
Maybe you will see the game in a new light, or maybe you just confirm your belief.

Iznogood - 31 August 2012 01:35 PM

To answer you question: NO. it is defiently not an Adventure Game in disquise!

It is true that there are investigating missions, that are somewhat similar to puzzles in AG, but they only play a small part in the game, and there are actually fewer and fewer the more you progress in the game.

Actually they started with almost equal amount of them for each zone, but there was a 4-5 added in the last update which was placed in the earlier zones.

There is also a story with voice acting, but this doesn’t make it an AG, and it is not unique for TSW, most modern MMORPG and other games are also story driven with voice acting. In fact i personally found the story better in SWTOR. One of the problems i have with the story part of TSW, is that it is not told in dialogs, but in monologues, minutes long monolouges where they just go rambling on and on and on…, you own char is apparently mute, and after a short while i found that i quickly press esc to skip the monolouges, something i would never do in an AG.

Many adventure games have mute protagonist, most of those are first person though.
Yes Ragnar’s storytelling can be alot, had the same problem the first time i tried TLJ, but soon the story and characthers got very interesting, so you shouldn’t be skipping them.

What TSW is, is a MMORPG where they have tried to somewhat redefine the genre, both by adding new types of quest with Investigating and Sabotage missions, and by getting rid of Classes and Levels, and using the ability wheel instead, but it is still 100% a MMORPG.

Is Portal2 100% a FPS game or LA Noire 100% (not sure what you call it, GTA style) game?

The interesting thing from an adventure gamers perspective is, that the investigating missions aren’t quite like the puzzles we are used to, let me give you an example:

This is exactly what iam talking about, when i solved this i got the same kick as i did solving those in Pandora Directive, DOTT

The point is that as long as we type in the correct password, then the game doesn’t care how we got the password, we could just have typed random names until we hit the right one, or we could have asked another player who had already solved this, but if it was an adventure game, then we would have had to solve the puzzle exactly like the developers intent us to do it.

Well that applies to adventure games in general, as most can easily be solved by following a walktrough, or asking someone that has played it for the solution ;-)

The question is, if Dreamfall Chapters is ever made, will they then use the experience from TSW, and make the puzzles similar?
Or will other developers pick up on the idea, and will we begin to see a more open puzzle design inspired by TSW?

Personally i hope so.

Me too :-), but the best part is that there will be multiple new quests of this type in each update, so i will have those to play while waiting the continuation of Dreamfall.

Not denying it is a “Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game”, but does that exclude it from being a Adventure also?

Gabriel Knight 3 and Kings Quest 8, both are considered the best and worst in the series, and it seems that might because they stray so far away from the traditional point/click system.

But both are still considered adventure games, same also apply to Quest for Glory which has alot of influence from RPG games.

Now it was never my intention of becoming a “fanboy” poster of the game or it’s business model, i was more interested in the discussion around the investigation quests and it’s focus on story, and if it by incorporating those methods would be classified as an adventure.

I believe that adventure games comes in many forms, but in the end it always seems to boil down to story, and the method to deliver it is not a consistent one which can so easily be defined.

Examples:
7th Guest and 11th Hour:
both are classified as adventure games, but both of these only tells stories for progressing a puzzle, and would they have had the “adventure” stamp on them if released today?

Phantasmagoria 2: (not really good game, but i liked the story and Trevor was funny)
No real dialogue system, 70% time you are only clicking to continue to the next video.

Terror Trax:
2 choices; A OR B .. gameplay mechanics on par with Dragon’s Lair, just choice done early can affect story at a later phase.

Walking dead:
If you claim this is a adventure game, then The Secret World is also one.
“Puzzles” in this game is only there to keep the game from becoming a Quick Time Event game, and there seems to be a built-in hint system which more or less forces progression if you stand in the same area for awhile.

I have played and own more or less every single Lucasfilm-Lucasarts, Sierra (Cocktel Vision and Dynamix included), Revolution, Divide by zero, Funcom, Brøderbund, Westwood, Sanctury Woods, Telltale, Trilobyte, Others: (3 Skulls of the Toltecs, Bud Tucker, Duckman, Fable (Not the xbox one), Toonstruck, Touche) and much much more, mostly only counted the 3rd person ones.
I counted them once, and passed 150+ and I have had many more, I think the total would be more around 300+.

In short: if it was released between 1990 and 2000 and is reviewed on this site I most likely own and/or have played it.

The last few years have not been good, there have been a few nice looking adventure games, but there seemed that there always was something wrong, like bad voice acting, translations, puzzle design or lackluster stories.

Like Vampyre Story:
Nice looking, sometimes funny, personally I didn’t find the voice acting too bad, but the story was for no better words .. mehh, remember there was a cliff hanger in the end, but couldn’t care less.

Soo Blonde:
Visually extremely good, but no really memorable characters except Sunny, illogical puzzles and some okay to good voice acting.

I miss the good old point and click adventure games, but mostly I miss good storytelling.
3rd person point and click really doesn’t make a adventure game for me, it has to be a entertaining story connected to it, humor or horror (or a combination) are my favorite themes.

But given that most of the legends have had kickstarters (which i have backed :-) )
Al Lowe was one that slipped under my nose, but got it via paypal later.
Things are looking bright for both 3rd person point and click games :-)

But i fear that these adventure games will take the route of no resistance and include hints systems or big pointing arrows to the next task.

Since what I miss most in adventure games is the satisfaction of completing a task which i worked hard to solve, TSW gives you no hints, it gives you little explanation, you need to use your brain to solve these tasks.

Things like deciphering messages coordinates is common, and some of them are easy others are plain Eeeeeevil, but I got through them .. well to be perfectly honest I might have checked the answer on 1… or 2, but mostly because I was uncertain if I was on the right path .. and second, I have no intention of learning morse code.

I personally feel that TSW has more in common with adventure games released before 2000, than many of the latest offerings have.

In bulletpoint;
* Intriguing and absolutely massive story, which is in most part superbly written/told.
* Exploration is a huge part of the game.
* It requires knowledge not only from in-game, but outside of it to really progress.
* You need to be able to read if you want to progress.

So after rambling on like a lunatic, I’ll rephrase my question to:

Is The Secret World a “MMO ADVENTURE RPG”?

It’s now a lot easier to find out. The game price is $30 and the subscription is now optional.

For those who want to get the most out of their Secret World experience we have an optional Membership available. Being a monthly subscriber, for the same cost as before, now gives great benefits. For being a member you get the following:

Time Accelerator (Clickable item which increases experience gain for defeating monsters by 100% for 1 hour, 16 hour cool-down – only usable by Members and Grand Masters)
$10 worth of Bonus Points (given out every month)
Item-of-the-month gift (given out every month)
10% discount to everything in the in-game store

The Grandmaster pack includes all these benefits and gets an additional 10% discount to everything in the in-game store, for a total bonus of 20%. So being a Grandmaster is better than ever!
Through the month of December we have a special offer where we give 30% off on the first purchase on the 3, 6 and 12 month Membership plans.

This is a really fascinating discussion.

I’m not an MMO player apart from a bunch of hours playing the first guild wars single player (only because it didnt have monthly fees). But I really did find the Get X of this and get X of that type of quests to be very tiresome. Strangely I dont mind those quests in single player RPGs. Also the fact that you need to grind a lot to progress (especially when playing alone). If TSW avoids both those, then it might be interesting.

About the combat mechanics, I really dont mind click to attack style. I played a bit of Mount & Blade which has 1-to-1 combat movements (ie, you control your sword movements and aim your arrows) and found that its not very easy. Killing even low level enemies requires a lot of concentration and effort.