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Puzzle Difficulty/Design
I must be the only person in the world who likes the cat mustache puzzle. I don’t see why it’s that illogical, it’s just not easy or obvious. I like whacky solutions thrown into games. As long as you get there, and the logic works in reverse it’s fun sometimes to see the logic reveal itself. I also never had a problem with the abominable snowman puzzle. Never even thought to dislike it. If you just used your wand on everything, that would SUCK and require no thought. Wasn’t the wand broken? To me KQ is filled with whacky solutions like that, so it came to me pretty fast.
THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN PUZZLE IS NOT ILLOGICAL.
Pie-in-the-face is an absolutely classic trope, and makes complete sense within the semi-cartoon world of King’s Quest.
Now, I’m not saying the puzzle isn’t problematic, but its problem IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN that the solution doesn’t make logical sense.
The main problem with the puzzle is actually a larger problem with the rest of the game, and that’s simply how easy it is to end up at that point WITHOUT the pie. THAT’S the real problem.
I mean, seriously—am I crazy? Is it maybe an English-speaking thing? Is the pie-in-the-face gag not as well known outside of the United States or something? Because to me, if you have the pie in your inventory, that puzzle is an ABSOLUTE FUCKING NO-BRAINER.
Sorry for the text-based shouting. This is just one of my all-time adventure game complaint pet peeves. 
It’s strange to me that the Babel Fish puzzle has a reputation as insanely difficult. Granted, if it’s described in a certain way to somebody who hasn’t played it, it can appear to be overwhelming. So many different things that have to be done just to get one item. But the game takes you through the puzzle step by step. Stop the fish from doing X. Oh ok well now Y happens, so stop it from doing Y too. Now Z happens, so stop Z. Every step is logical and is relatively simple. It’s seriously one of the least difficult text adventure puzzles I have ever played.
The overall final solution looks huge and crazy, but again, you’re not meant to figure it all out at once.
I must be the only person in the world ho likes the cat mustache puzzle. I don’t see why it’s that illogical, it’s just not easy or obvious. I like whacky solutions thrown into games. As long as you get there, and the logic works in reverse it’s fun sometimes to see the logic reveal itself. I also never had a problem with the abominable snowman puzzle. Never even thought to dislike it. If you just used your wand on everything, that would SUCK and require no thought. Wasn’t the wand broken? To me KQ is filled with whacky solutions like that, so it came to me pretty fast.
I didn’t think there was much of anything wrong with the cat mustache puzzle. It was only after that ridiculous Old Man Murray article that anybody gave it a second thought. I figured that puzzle out just fine on my first playthrough when the game first came out. The wackiness of it was nothing out of the ordinary for adventure games at that time.
I didn’t think there was much of anything wrong with the cat mustache puzzle. It was only after that ridiculous Old Man Murray article that anybody gave it a second thought. I figured that puzzle out just fine on my first playthrough when the game first came out. The wackiness of it was nothing out of the ordinary for adventure games at that time.
I think that’s a damning indictment of the genre.
THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN PUZZLE IS NOT ILLOGICAL.
Pie-in-the-face is an absolutely classic trope, and makes complete sense within the semi-cartoon world of King’s Quest.
Now, I’m not saying the puzzle isn’t problematic, but its problem IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN that the solution doesn’t make logical sense.
The main problem with the puzzle is actually a larger problem with the rest of the game, and that’s simply how easy it is to end up at that point WITHOUT the pie. THAT’S the real problem.
I mean, seriously—am I crazy? Is it maybe an English-speaking thing? Is the pie-in-the-face gag not as well known outside of the United States or something? Because to me, if you have the pie in your inventory, that puzzle is an ABSOLUTE FUCKING NO-BRAINER.
Pie in the face is a classic trope to frustrate or embarrass your target by pricking their pomposity with a puerile act. It’s not traditionally associated with defence from rampaging, murderous beasts. In fact, the definition states: ‘In pieing, the goal is usually to humiliate the victim while avoiding actual injury.’
Maybe if the target was a ravenous mountain clown there’d be a certain train of logic.
An online playthrough has the user attempt to distract the Yeti by playing a harp, presumably after the old adage ‘music soothes the savage beast’. That idea for a solution makes more satisfactory sense. As it stands, it just becomes a ‘try everything’ puzzle, hampered by the fact that, as you say, the pie may no longer be there.
I mean, seriously—am I crazy? Is it maybe an English-speaking thing? Is the pie-in-the-face gag not as well known outside of the United States or something?
I’ve never heard of this American pie throwing activity you describe. Where I come from this would be considered offensive both to the baker and the owner of the face.
Duckman: Can you believe it? Five hundred bucks for a parking ticket?
Cornfed Pig: You parked in a handicapped zone.
Duckman: Who cares? Nobody parks there anyway, except for the people who are supposed to park there and, hell, I can outrun them anytime.
The whole pie thing basically boils down to what items you have in your inventory that can possibly be thrown—and the pie is an obvious solution. As the player, you’ve already dealt with similar timed puzzles before earlier in the game, all of which have involved throwing items, so it’s really nothing new here.
In fact, the definition states: ‘In pieing, the goal is usually to humiliate the victim while avoiding actual injury.’
And that doesn’t describe this situation?
Well, no. Injury to the victim is not avoided and is actively desired. Humiliating the Yeti isn’t even a concern.
The whole thing basically boils down to what items you have in your inventory that can possibly be thrown—and the pie is an obvious solution. As the player, you’ve
already dealt with similar timed puzzles before, so it’s nothing new here.
No, the throwing element is the solution in this case, but it doesn’t have to be - as with the suggested example of music soothing the Yeti. The fact that it boils down to chucking an object to distract the yeti and make it slip, pretty much anything would do the job; why not use the cape like a matador, or use the hammer - a much more practical weapon given the circumstances. It’s just a completely unsatisfying puzzle.
why not use the cape like a matador, or use the hammer - a much more practical weapon given the circumstances. It’s just a completely unsatisfying puzzle.
I misinterpreted that first quote, which is why I edited my post a few minutes ago (probably while you were responding.) Initially, I took it to mean “avoiding injury to oneself.”
As for the above quote: Because he’s not a bull? Because a small cobbler’s hammer (smaller than a normal hammer, by the way) would not do anything in the slightest to a large monster like that? 
I’m not saying the puzzle is perfect, but it’s not totally illogical either. And certainly not the “worst puzzle in adventure game history” as others have claimed in this very thread. The hypothetical alternatives you’ve mentioned are no less flawed than the pie, and in some cases make less sense, given the circumstances and the fairy tale world logic.
The music one would be a reasonable alternative, I’ll grant you that. But given what you typically have in your inventory at that point, that’s pretty much the ONLY reasonable alternative.
Like I said, the biggest problem is how easy it is to dead-end yourself there without the pie. Logical or not, that’s what makes it the most difficult from a gameplay standpoint.
why not use the cape like a matador, or use the hammer - a much more practical weapon given the circumstances. It’s just a completely unsatisfying puzzle.
I misinterpreted that first quote, which is why I edited my post a few minutes ago (probably while you were responding.) Initially, I took it to mean “avoiding injury to oneself.”
Ah, yes, reading it back it’s easy to get that interpretation.
As for the above quote: Because he’s not a bull?
To which I’d respond: But he isn’t a clown/slapstick comedian either.
Because a small cobbler’s hammer (smaller than a normal hammer, by the way) would not do anything in the slightest to a large monster like that?
I’m not saying the puzzle is perfect, but it’s not totally illogical either. And certainly not the “worst puzzle in adventure game history” as others have claimed in this very thread. The hypothetical alternatives you’ve mentioned are no less flawed than the pie, and in some cases make less sense, given the circumstances and the fairy tale world logic.
The music one would be a reasonable alternative, I’ll grant you that. But given what you typically have in your inventory at that point, that’s pretty much the ONLY reasonable alternative.
Like I said, the biggest problem is how easy it is to dead-end yourself there without the pie. Logical or not, that’s what makes it the most difficult from a gameplay standpoint.
I don’t see why using the cape’s movement to distract him ala a bullfighter is any less ridiculous than using a pie. It’s a charging beast - that’s more of a link than a Yeti has to a custard pie.
Similarly, if a custard pie can trigger an animation that causes the Yeti to slip, I’d argue that an animation of Graham hurling the hammer at the beast’s temple, David and Goliath style (again, potentially more of a link than a custard pie), causing the Yeti to be momentarily stunned and slip, isn’t any less believable.
Remember, I’m not suggesting these as good solutions - although the Harp idea makes the most sense to me - merely logically equivalent to the game’s actual solution.
As I said, it’s a completely unsatisfying puzzle. I don’t feel I’ve used intelligence to solve it. (And the fact that it can also cause a dead end just makes a bad situation infinitely worse.).
THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN PUZZLE IS NOT ILLOGICAL.
Pie-in-the-face is an absolutely classic trope, and makes complete sense within the semi-cartoon world of King’s Quest.
Now, I’m not saying the puzzle isn’t problematic, but its problem IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN that the solution doesn’t make logical sense.
The main problem with the puzzle is actually a larger problem with the rest of the game, and that’s simply how easy it is to end up at that point WITHOUT the pie. THAT’S the real problem.
I mean, seriously—am I crazy? Is it maybe an English-speaking thing? Is the pie-in-the-face gag not as well known outside of the United States or something? Because to me, if you have the pie in your inventory, that puzzle is an ABSOLUTE FUCKING NO-BRAINER.
Pie in the face is a classic trope to frustrate or embarrass your target by pricking their pomposity with a puerile act. It’s not traditionally associated with defence from rampaging, murderous beasts. In fact, the definition states: ‘In pieing, the goal is usually to humiliate the victim while avoiding actual injury.’
You’re not getting the joke then. It’s precisely that contrast that makes it a classic King’s Quest gag. It’s 100% in line with the series. Keep in mind, this was easily the biggest step forward of the whole series at that point. This is very early on.
In the original KQ1 you had to create a backwards alphabet on your own and then spell Rumpelstiltskin with it. With literally “It is always wise to think backwards” as your only vague clue from the witches house nowhere near the gnome. Now that’s a ridiculous puzzle.
I have to ask, but are you getting your opinions from this article? http://www.davidbarrkirtley.com/blog/?p=2012 I just discovered it and it makes me curious because I’ve never heard someone have a problem with that puzzle before.
You’re not getting the joke then. It’s precisely that contrast that makes it a classic King’s Quest gag. It’s 100% in line with the series. Keep in mind, this was easily the biggest step forward of the whole series at that point. This is very early on.
I’d also posit that the rib-tickling concept that a custard pie, while traditionally associated with harmlessly undermining uptight straight-men in vaudeville comedy routines, being unexpectedly used to kill a Yeti isn’t just a bad puzzle, but also a very poor joke.
Following that train of thought, pretty much all poor puzzle designs could be explained away with cries of “Ah, did you not get the joke?”
Saying it’s in keeping with the puzzle quality of the previous games doesn’t elevate it. It just proves that the older games had bad puzzles too. That’s not something we should be misty eyed and nostalgic about.
The whole pie thing basically boils down to what items you have in your inventory that can possibly be thrown—and the pie is an obvious solution. As the player, you’ve already dealt with similar timed puzzles before earlier in the game, all of which have involved throwing items, so it’s really nothing new here.
Depends very much on the cultural and humour context you’ve been living in. When I first encountered that puzzle myself it didn’t occur to me that a pie could be used as a throwing weapon, as in that point in my life I had never seen such a gag before. After I found the solution to that puzzle I kept thinking: “Why a pie? What sense does that make? Was it supposed to be funny?”
I saw a “pie in the face” joke a couple of years later, but even in that the pie wasn’t actually thrown, it was just pressed on the receivers face. (And I didn’t find that joke funny either)
I’m not misty eyed. I’m saying for its time (and still imo) it was a perfectly logical and straight forward puzzle. Nobody thought “this is a deadly serious yeti, this game has been nothing but deadly serious so far, nevermind those ants and that rat i befriended earlier, or that little leprechaun in the forest with the honey, this time the game is serious and this pie could not POSSIBLY work.” KQ were silly games. The idea of throwing a pie in the yeti’s face is a silly idea that rests on the fact that it’s a twist on an old trope. The entire logic of the KQ world is random old tropes and a grab bag of nursery rhyme cliches. One second you’re finding a needle in a haystack, the next you’re cheering up a weeping willow.
I also feel like back then the pie-in-the-face thing was perhaps more common than now. The first thought you had when you saw a big ol’ custard pie was throwing it in someone’s face. It’d be as obvious as seeing a lamp and knowing you had to rub it for a genie.
Is it the best puzzle of the game? No. But it certainly wasn’t the most frustrating. If you had the pie on hand, you would try to use it and then get a chuckle when it works. That was the fun.
EDIT: One final point: you weren’t expected to get these right on the first time! You were instructed very clearly to save constantly. So part of the gag sometimes was trying the obvious solution, it going badly, and then restoring and trying the somewhat offbeat solution and having it work. Saving and loading was part of the gameplay. I know now that’s a filthy concept, but it doesn’t have to be.
Depends very much on the cultural and humour context you’ve been living in. When I first encountered that puzzle myself it didn’t occur to me that a pie could be used as a throwing weapon, as in that point in my life I had never seen such a gag before. After I found the solution to that puzzle I kept thinking: “Why a pie? What sense does that make? Was it supposed to be funny?”
Where do you come from, if you don’t mind me asking? It’s really interesting that you’d not come across pieing before, as it’s very much an old slapstick staple here in the UK.
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