Adventure Gamers - Forums

I agree it’s too loose. There is a definition there somewhere, it just needs to be made. In appearance, 3D doesn’t have to look much different from 2D. You can hand-paint a character from every angle and it will look similar to a character constructed of pixels in 3D, and 2D characters will walk in 3 dimensions also. It also seems to me that FMV is ‘computer-generated’ animation in every sense of the word. I don’t know enough about rendering of computer graphics to know what I’m talking about so maybe someone else will.

Zifnab - 29 April 2013 06:35 AM

why there are FMV and Pendulo games but not Monkey Island 4, and what on earth “computer-generated” means

I had no idea people would find this so complicated. To explain why “Monkey Island 4” (lol) isn’t on the list, it’s because Pendulo games have an animation style like this,

and Monkey Island 4 is just this

We are not interested in pedantic details of computer techniques used in animation and splitting hairs. To make it real simple, if you were to ask a 10 year old to look at the game and tell you whether it’s a cartoon or CG, anything he says is CG is not on the list.

FMV are included because FMV has a rather pixelated animation style.

I guess I need to be 10 then. They both look like cartoons to me.

One looks like it could be an animated movie, the other looks like something from Nintendo 64.

That’s why the Runaway series is on the list and Escape from Monkey Island isn’t.

I see how you’re going for 2D animated games—or something that looks like a 2D cartoon rather than a 3D cartoon. But why would Heart of China and Guardians of Eden be on your list?
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/heart-of-china/screenshots/gameShotId,99604/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/amazon-guardians-of-eden/screenshots/gameShotId,17771/

They’re clearly meant to be as photorealistic as was possible at the time the games were made (1991 or 1992). The fact that they are low-resolution doesn’t automatically make them “animated” games. Otherwise any game older than 1992 or with 320x240 or less graphics resolution would qualify.

After looking more into Heart of China I’ll remove it from the list. Not so much because of the graphics (which remind me a bit of the Quest for Glory series of how they did faces in dialogue) but because there isn’t motion in it and I feel it’s more of an interactive picture/text adventure like Spellcasting101 or Leather Goddesses of Phobos.

Amazon: Guardians of Eden I think belongs, you can see in this youtube video of gameplay

as well as screenshots like this

that there is an animated component. The game seems to be a cross between animation and FMV, both of which I want on the list.

It’s really not that complicated. If a game looks similar to a Nintendo 64 game, has repetitive texture rendering instead of hand painted things, has blocky polygons, etc then that is my definition of “CG” or “3d”. However, if a game looks like a cartoon, has sprites, claymation, or has FMV then that is what I want to include.

AdorableMogwai - 29 April 2013 11:30 PM

It’s really not that complicated. If a game looks similar to a Nintendo 64 game, has repetitive texture rendering instead of hand painted things, has blocky polygons, etc then that is my definition of “CG” or “3d”. However, if a game looks like a cartoon, has sprites, claymation, or has FMV then that is what I want to include.

Then you’ll have to include all the Myst games, because they have FMV. (Loads of other 1st person games have FMV too).

And what about LA Noire and The Westerner like diego mentioned? It looks close to FMV but is actually animated.

A few more I’m not sure about:

Bureau 13

The Lost Crown

Animal

Normality

Plan 9 from Outer Space

With Normality it’s like a 3D first person shooter. If you watch this video of gameplay, and especially around 3:14 and 4:47

With The Lost Crown I don’t know how you could even think something like that is not CG.  It’s newer and higher quality CG, with the textures not so repetitive and the polygons not as apparent, but still CG.

This really isn’t as complex as some of you are making it out to be. We’re looking for animated games like in the style of Lucas Arts and FMV games like Darkseed. Focus on finding the many obscure animated games that are out there and clearly fit into this category, instead of trying to find ways to challenge the criteria and digging up ambiguous games that are 3d with a dash of animation or FMV thrown in.

If a game makes you think of LucasArts, or Daedalic, it belongs on this list.

If a game makes you think of Telltale, it doesn’t.

How about Tsunami’s 1993 Blue Force by Police Quest designer Jim Walls?

Here is video of gameplay:

More info:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Force

Also, the commercial release from Himalaya, Al Emmo:
http://www.himalayastudios.com/alemmo.php

I am thoroughly confused about what qualifies for the list at this point, so sorry if these don’t meet the graphical requirements.

Also, Blackwell Convergence:
http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/blackwell-convergence.html

And what about this little free game partially designed by Tim Schafer:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_Master_and_the_Conquest_of_Humor

Yes, it’s free, but this is also Tim Schafer we are talking about, so that has to count for something.

And here is the sequel, which may or may not have had Schafer’s involvement:
http://www.destructoid.com/play-as-tim-schafer-in-host-master-deux-250889.phtml

Thanks, I added Blue Force and The Blackwell Convergence, as well as the other Blackwell games: Unbound, Legacy, and Deception. Yet another Blackwell game is due out later this year.

After looking into Al Emmo I don’t think it belongs on the list for the same reason Bureau 13 doesn’t, and that (along with the cut scenes) the characters have a 3d “The Sims” type of feel. Al Emmo is yet another of those ambiguous games that blends cartoon and 3d, and in its case I feel it’s a little too far on the 3d side.

Host Master and the Conquest of Humor does look like a good game, and perhaps we should make another list for these notable freeware and/or flash animated adventure games.

I love this thread, but I find your arbitrary list of what is in or not to be amusing.

Bt

Thanks Blackthorne, and I’m looking forward to Quest for Infamy. Loved the demo.

As for arbitrariness, it’s not really when you consider what I’m trying to do with this list, and that is create a resource for people who like LucasArts/Pendulo/Broken Sword/Daedelic type games with 2d animation to find similar games to that that they might not know about. That’s what this thread accomplishes. I know there are many people who like CG games and can’t understand why their favorite CG games aren’t included, and who then passively aggressively argue about it, but this thread is not really for those CG fans, this thread is for animated adventure fans.

There are games which combine 3d and 2d, and the line has to be drawn somewhere or else this would cease to be a list of animated adventure games and just become a list of adventure games. Since we’ve established that the line has to be drawn somewhere, there also must be a person to decide where that line is drawn. As the person making the list, who knows what I’m trying to accomplish with it, and who has been an animated adventure game fan for the past 17 years, I am making that decision, because it must be made.

This decision is not arbitrary, as I made clear in the original post that games like Vampire Story that had computer rendered looking characters would not be included. Al Emmo has computer rendered characters, therefore it is not included.

I would like it if people commented more with games which clearly fit into this list rather than trying to argue about what constitutes an animated adventure game, and saying things like “Why isn’t Monkey Island 4 included?” Come on now.

Yeah - you know, I’m a fan of all 2D stuff - I mean, that’s what I do!  I know Al Emmo had the pre-rendered 3D characters, but I also know a lot of hand-editing went into each frame of the characters as well, by an artist in Photoshop.  I can see why Monkey Island 4 wouldn’t be included, but there are examples, like Al Emmo, where 3D was used as a development tool, but the game was fully produced in 2D.  The backgrounds are hand-painted, the GUI is all hand-made.  There’s no rendering in engine.  Or Heart of China, which is clearly a 2D animated adventure game, though it used hand edited photo-references for the characters.

Bt

Blackthorne - 01 May 2013 05:03 PM

Yeah - you know, I’m a fan of all 2D stuff - I mean, that’s what I do!  I know Al Emmo had the pre-rendered 3D characters, but I also know a lot of hand-editing went into each frame of the characters as well, by an artist in Photoshop.  I can see why Monkey Island 4 wouldn’t be included, but there are examples, like Al Emmo, where 3D was used as a development too, but the game was fully produced in 2D.  The backgrounds are hand-painted, the GUI is all hand-made.  There’s no rendering in engine.  Or Heart of China, which is clearly a 2D animated adventure game, though it used hand edited photo-references for the characters.

Bt

Not only that but the animation in Pendulo games is 100% computer rendered. That’s what makes the list arbitrary: there’s no way of knowing whether a game will be accepted or not. I think that’s why people are hesitant to participate. Why Pendulo’s shading is allowed on the list but not other types of shading? Because AdorableMogwai says so.

Zifnab - 01 May 2013 06:55 PM

Why Pendulo’s shading is allowed on the list but not other types of shading?

Because Pendulo maintains a comic cartoon style. Pendulo games look like very high quality LucasArts games, and have that traditional animated adventure feel.

There are a lot of technical things about rendering, shading, textures, and computer stuff in general that one (if they really wanted to) could use to try and make some kind of argument. I am really not interesting in getting into this argument because I think most everyone understands why the Pendulo games fit on this list.

[img]
[/img]

What about this do you not get?

There could be computer techniques they use, but that doesn’t mean I’d call it a CG game. In shows like Family Guy and the Simpsons they sometimes have scenes where they do high quality 3d-ish animation, like on last Sunday’s episode where Brian shot the Nerf rocket gun at the button to stop the conveyor belt. Does that mean it’s not an animated cartoon show?

I’m sorry Monkey Island 4 can’t be on the list, but for the people who really enjoy the animated LucasArts style games, Monkey Island 4 was what ruined the Moneky Island series. To compare such an obviously CG, and rather ugly game like that to the Pendulo Games doesn’t really make sense outside of a technical, pedantic argument about shading or something or other. They are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

Like I wrote before this is very simple, we are not interested in technical arguments. It can be decided with a simple question. If an average person who doesn’t know about the actual techniques used to make these games (like me) were to look at a particular game, would it remind them more of an animated cartoon or more of a Pixar movie?