Adventure Gamers - Forums

Thanks marshal99, Quest1, and Oscar for the contributions. Many of those games I didn’t even know about, I will try to get around to adding them all before I go to sleep tonight.

TimovieMan - 02 May 2013 12:58 PM

I just don’t get what you’re looking for. I don’t get why Pendulo games are included, yet Heart of China and Al Emmo are not, just to name a few. It really does feel random.

When I did have Heart of China on the list, someone complained about that, and now that I’ve taken it off, people are complaining again.

It’s impossible for everyone to be happy. Especially in regards to the ambiguous games, where we’ve already established a line must be drawn somewhere or else this ceases to be an “animated” adventure game list and just becomes an adventure game list. People have slightly different ideas of where that line should be drawn, and to sit here and argue about it is pointless because ultimately someone still has to decide and no matter what there will be some people complaining.

And have you even read my replies or did you just skim this post and parrot the complaints of other people? For the umpteenth time Heart of China is a picture/text adventure. There is no animation in it. It is a game similar to Spellcasting101 which represents another subgenre. That is why Heart of China is not included.

It should be obvious why the Pendulo games are included. They are the quintessential animated adventure games. The maintain a comic cartoon style in all respects. If someone really doesn’t understand why the Pendulo games would be on an “animated adventure game” list then I don’t know what to tell them. And if they do understand and they’re just making a pedantic argument, I’m not interested. We’ve already gone over this, if people would read the comments before they post we wouldn’t have to repeat ourselves again and again.

If this list bothers you then just don’t read it. I don’t care if you’re “not going to contribute”, why are you even telling me that? Isn’t telling me you’re not going to contribute actually a form of contribution to the thread anyway? It just makes you seem passive aggressive and like you’re angry that one of the games you like isn’t included. And really, if there are actually people who don’t understand why the Pendulo games count as animated adventures and think Monkey Island 4 looks better than the Runaway series, I don’t want them to contribute.

*Gets popcorn.

Blackthorne - 02 May 2013 12:52 PM

Again, it’s subjective.  I loathe badly animated 3D characters and badly rendered 3D games, but I loathe arbitrary and subjective rules in list making more.

Allow me point out something to you, and that is that every single post you’ve made in this thread except for one has been either directly or indirectly defending the Himalaya Studios/AGDI team from perceived slights. First you got upset that Advie criticized the artwork for their upcoming games, and now you’re upset that Al Emmo isn’t included. It’s disingenuous how only after you found out Al Emmo wouldn’t be on the list that you lash out and call it arbitrary. I like Himalaya Studios and AGDI, I like their artwork on Mage’s Initiation and the Sierra remakes they do, but if you were to look at all the games they’ve ever made and ask “Which one of these games is least like the others?” that game would of course be Al Emmo because of the graphics. That’s not arbitrary, you’re just choosing not to get it because you’ve become passive aggressive.

Why am I suddenly reminded of a line from one of my favorite George Lucas parodies?

“If I decide I want to paint my house green, but EVERYBODY ELSE says it should be painted red—I’m gonna paint it Jar Jar.”

TimovieMan - 02 May 2013 04:18 PM

You totally missed my point. Heart of China was just an example and it’s definitely not “me complaining about games I like that aren’t on the list”. I haven’t even played any of the games I mentioned.

I’m talking about the basic idea that your criteria are fuzzy at best. Given the games that you did or did not put on the list, I have absolutely no clue about what to suggest. It’s not that I don’t *want* to contribute, it’s that I *can’t*.

You’ve tried to explain your reasoning a dozen times already, and considering the games you did and did not select (I’m not going to give examples this time, since you seem to jump on that), you appear to throw your own reasoning out the window.
I agree that you have to draw the line somewhere, but frankly, I think most of us here have no clue as to where that line is, no matter how many times you try to explain. It feels completely random and you still haven’t properly explained it.

I’m not sure if you’re familiar with (3)DS games? Given your picks so far, the first 4 Professor Layton games would make your list, as would 999 and other visual novels (like the Phoenix Wright games). Where things get fuzzy are the Hotel Dusk games (with the 3D movement), and the 3DS games Zero Escape (where the characters are 3D) and the last Layton game (where they’re 3D but cel-shaded).
My guess would be: Layton yes, Zero Escape and Hotel Dusk no. If not, then I still don’t understand where you draw the line…

I understand what you’re saying Timovieman, and I also appreciate that you are genuine in your criticisms, as opposed to some other people who seem to be posting for the sole purpose of arguing and trolling.

I think your assessment of the 3DS games is correct, I have taken note of these games as for now I’m focusing on the animated adventures available for PC, which allows me to put off dealing with the DS/3DS titles and the additional fuzzy games like Hotel Dusk.

I will say though, that if you admit to having not played any of the games you questioned being or not being on the list, maybe this is where some of your confusion is coming from.

If the criteria seem fuzzy, that is only because where a 2D animated adventure ends and where a 3d CG game begins is not perfectly defined. Ultimately someone has to make a decision in order to make any type of list whatsoever, and we’ve already established that no matter what that decision is there will be some people complaining. It’s also a fact of online forum behavior that people are more likely to post when they have something critical or negative to say. Therefore I think the people complaining aren’t necessarily indicative of majority opinion. I do think most people who have actually played the Pendulo games would understand why they’re animated adventures.

This list is just something I’m doing for fun. For the people who like the list, and agree with me about where the line between 2d and 2d is, great. For the people who don’t agree and think it’s just my opinion, ok it is. If someone doesn’t like the list then just don’t read it, but I think a lot more people are going to enjoy this list and if they like animated style games are going to find out about new titles they didn’t know existed, and that’s the point.

It’s not after Al Emmo wasn’t included - that happened to be when I had a chance to read the whole thread and thought some things were fishy.

This is Heart of China.  There’s animation.  It’s first person, but there’s animation.

Advie asked me, personally, what I thought about Himalaya’s Artwork, and I gave an honest answer.  Plus, I’ll defend the work of another independent team that I feel deserves it.  It wasn’t an unsolicited comment I made.  I do think the exclusion of Al Emmo and Heart of China are head scratchers - I have personal experience with the team who made Al Emmo, and I know how much work went into it, so I have an insight into the process of that game that goes beyond someone’s mere viewing of it.

Bt

AdorableMogwai - 02 May 2013 04:48 PM

If the criteria seem fuzzy, that is only because where a 2D animated adventure ends and where a 3d CG game begins is not perfectly defined. Ultimately someone has to make a decision in order to make any type of list whatsoever, and we’ve already established that no matter what that decision is there will be some people complaining.

No, people are complaining because you haven’t defined that line clearly at all.  You’re right, someone DOES need to make a decision on criteria for the list, but you HAVEN’T DONE IT.  You started to define it—again, unclearly—and then you contradicted yourself numerous times, so now nobody knows what to think.

AdorableMogwai - 02 May 2013 04:48 PM

This list is just something I’m doing for fun. For the people who like the list, and agree with me about where the line between 2d and 2d is, great. For the people who don’t agree and think it’s just my opinion, ok it is. If someone doesn’t like the list then just don’t read it, but I think a lot more people are going to enjoy this list and if they like animated style games are going to find out about new titles they didn’t know existed, and that’s the point.

Dude, even people who LIKE THE IDEA OF THE LIST don’t know what your criteria are, because you aren’t explaining yourself clearly.  This isn’t an opinion issue, it’s a reading and writing comprehension issue.

What you need to do is put your ego away and stop, think, and make a clearly worded post that directly explains the criteria for this list.  Then we can go from there.

Lambonius - 02 May 2013 10:16 AM

bullshit.  Let’s move on, people.  Nothing more to see here.

For someone who has called the thread b******* you sure are posting a lot in it. Four times now. I’m doing this list for fun, not to engage you in a hostile flame war. If you don’t like my list or this thread then perhaps you should take your own advice and move on.

You have already used profanity and now you are insulting me personally. Trollish behavior like this is a perfect example of why online forums tend to be nonconstructive places.

Blackthorne - 02 May 2013 04:49 PM

It’s not after Al Emmo wasn’t included - that happened to be when I had a chance to read the whole thread and thought some things were fishy.

This is Heart of China.  There’s animation.  It’s first person, but there’s animation.

Advie asked me, personally, what I thought about Himalaya’s Artwork, and I gave an honest answer.  Plus, I’ll defend the work of another independent team that I feel deserves it.  It wasn’t an unsolicited comment I made.  I do think the exclusion of Al Emmo and Heart of China are head scratchers - I have personal experience with the team who made Al Emmo, and I know how much work went into it, so I have an insight into the process of that game that goes beyond someone’s mere viewing of it.

Bt

I agree with you in defending Himalaya’s Artwork. I thought Advie’s comments were harsh and undeserved, and as an animated adventure game fan Himalaya/AGDI is one of my favorite companies and I appreciate their remakes as much as I appreciate Al Lowe redoing the Leisure Suit Larry series.

But perhaps as a developer yourself and someone who knows the Himalaya team personally, you have an emotional stake in this. I can see how what I wrote about Al Emmo, saying the developers blew it, could be insulting to the game and you would want to defend it.

When I had Heart of China on the list a member named “Crabapple” complained about it in comment #35, saying it was photo-realistic, and if I included it I had to include other games. That’s the problem with putting ambiguous games like Heart of China and Al Emmo on the list, once that is done, people then use it as another way to argue, saying “Well if you have Heart of China why don’t you have Spellcasting 101 and Myst” or “If you have El Ammo why don’t you have Vampire Story and Book of Unwritten Tales?” And then if you were to add Vampire Story someone would post saying “You have Vampire Story, why not add the TellTale games, they’re cartoonish like Vampire Story is.” And the line just keeps getting moved further and further down until this isn’t an animated list at all anymore, therefore, the line has to be put somewhere and once it’s there it has to stay there, or else there’s no point in making a list. No matter where it is there will be some people who disagree with it, but that is inevitable.

I’m just using the caps for emphasis, not yelling.  I suppose I could have just as easily used italics. 

tomimt - 02 May 2013 05:50 PM

AdorableMogwai - 02 May 2013 05:27 PM

When I had Heart of China on the list a member named “Crabapple” complained about it in comment #35, saying it was photo-realistic, and if I included it I had to include other games.

By that photoreal claim you should also remove FMV games like Police Quest Open Season from the list, as the art style is not even close traditionally animated. Hell, Heart of China looks more painted than Open Season does.

It almost sounds like you’re saying there needs to be some clearly defined criteria for which games are and aren’t included on this list.