Adventure Gamers - Forums

Okay, fair enough.    I don’t have anything against any of these ex-Sierra designers personally.  Quite the contrary, really.  I have a lot of respect for them.  However, I certainly don’t think they’re above criticism, and I am saddened by the fact that a lot of them seem to be drawing a lot of negative attention to the Kickstarter process as a whole, at least in the wider gaming media, if not in the adventure gaming community itself.  I think a lot of fans are guilty of not objectively examining what these designers were presenting with their campaigns before pledging money to them, and it is now leading to a lot of feelings that they have been mismanaging their projects (which, in some cases, I think has been true.)  Some people are taking those feelings of resentment/disappointment and extending them (inappropriately, in my opinion) to disparage Kickstarter itself.  THAT’S what I find problematic, and what I was originally intending to comment on a few posts back.

In terms of what I find problematic about some of the campaigns themselves—for me it mainly comes down to a feeling that they either didn’t have clearly defined goals, didn’t have a clearly defined path to reach those goals, or a little of both.   

I also think that a lot of these designers, while great at the actual design of their stories and games (at least by 1990 standards), are not necessarily experienced with handling large sums of money and running a business on a limited budget.  Those are two very different skill sets, and I think we’re seeing the effects of that with some of these projects.

Ah, yes, I see what you’re saying about the Kickstarter process as a whole. And I wholeheartedly agree with your earlier comment that Kickstarter has been a wonderful boon to small teams with a great project proposal who couldn’t get the financing in other ways.

Actually, this may sound odd, but even though I support crowdfunding and believe it is here to stay, I don’t mind the blowback.

I propose that we’re in the middle of what is sometimes called the “trough of disillusionment” on the hype curve of new ideas and technologies. It certainly doesn’t happen with every new tech, but it is kind of a healthy, somewhat inevitable process (like the five stages of grief) that helps people figure out what a new tech’s strengths and weaknesses are.

I’m quite confident Kickstarter will survive the low point, and it will come out a stronger, more mature platform on the other side.

Caliburn - 02 August 2013 12:27 PM

I propose that we’re in the middle of what is sometimes called the “trough of disillusionment” on the hype curve of new ideas and technologies. It certainly doesn’t happen with every new tech, but it is kind of a healthy, somewhat inevitable process (like the five stages of grief) that helps people figure out what a new tech’s strengths and weaknesses are.

I’m quite confident Kickstarter will survive the low point, and it will come out a stronger, more mature platform on the other side.

Yeah, I agree.  I’d liken it somewhat to natural selection.  People are becoming more discriminating of the campaigns that they choose to fund, and now it’s going to force developers to present stronger and more concrete campaigns if they hope to get funded.  The weak ones won’t make funding.  I think we’re seeing this play out with Precinct (unfortunately.)

yeah, crowdfunding remains a powerful tool that has changed industries. Unfortunately, many of these sentimental projects have only proven why a publisher is needed (say whatever you want about the mgx publisher,  but its not their fault mgx was prematurely used to publicize the kickstarter).
And geez yeah precinct.. id really like to play such a game.. but who can get excited about watching a 4th or 5th of these kickstarter projects just barely make it and then not have enough money or a good enough plan to make the game people really want.

Remind me to send Ozzie some lipstick, because his lips MUST be chapped.

Yeah - we’re definitely in the trough right now.  I think we’ll see how things are in a years time or so… but right now is definitely a downswing for Kickstarters and Adventure games.

Unfortunately, the nature of the adventure game beast is that it can take a while to produce these games.  Phoenix Online did a good job with about a year inbetween their Cognition KS and the release of the first episode - but that’s just the first episode.  Their pace has been good beyond that, but I imagine it would have taken much longer to finish Cognition if it had not been episodic.

So, yeah, I think next year will really show whether or not people are just blowing smoke.  But I gotta be honest - a lot of what I’ve seen so far from these “bigger” and “name” projects doesn’t compare to what I’ve seen from smaller, less known groups.

Bt

oh and seriously! Iv been hard on phoenix in the past… but lets just imagine for a sec where pinkerton would be without them….nowhere!!! Pinkerton would be 0 for 2!!! Signus or whatever it was called vanished in a puff of smoke months after the kickstarter (along with the mgx deal). Without phoenix, maybe the only release we see “this cycle” is lola and lucy.

zane - 02 August 2013 02:19 PM

(say whatever you want about the mgx publisher,  but its not their fault mgx was prematurely used to publicize the kickstarter)

Sadly, have to agree with this. I suspect if Jane had it to do over again, she might think twice about announcing MGX during the campaign. (As I recall, she actually implied this regret in an earlier update when the revelation of what MGX was kept being pushed back.) I think it’s too risky for KS projects to announce anything publisher-controlled that doesn’t have a precise, confirmed ship date. MGX could have been a pleasant surprise additional reward, instead of seeming to promise something that Pinkerton can’t fully control. The MGX announcement set off some warning bells for me as soon as it was brought up in the initial campaign.

So it’s unfortunate we’ve come to this holding pattern, but I think Jane Jensen is well aware of the concern and there is no stronger advocate for our concerns than Jane herself. Pinkerton is doing all they can at this point, and I hope Jane is correct that they are close to locking down a deal with the publisher to resume.

As a side note, I don’t fully understand why anyone would back the Pinkerton Road Kickstarter if all they wanted was MGX, because if that’s the case:
1) The game would be made or not made regardless of the Kickstarter, since it was pretty clearly stated in the Kickstarter that MGX was publisher funded and controlled. So one could just wait for it and buy it later.
2) Money for the Kickstarter isn’t helping MGX have a higher budget or be a better game, it’s helping Moebius.
3) We don’t even know what MGX is for sure.

So I get why backers at a $50 tier like me (or even higher) hope to play both Moebius and MGX. And I can understand why someone at the $15 or $30 tier might prefer MGX as their first choice with Moebius as a backup. But I don’t fully understand why anyone would pledge $15 or $30 if they only wanted MGX and wouldn’t be willing to accept Moebius as a substitute.

To me, the word “publisher” in relation to MGX should immediately imply to anyone doing due diligence the possibility that it may not get released, though I agree Pinkerton could have more strongly underlined this. (Speaking more about Kickstarters in general, backers need to take accountability for how they vet projects and for whether they have realistic expectations too: see here and the backer-related bullet points here for some good advice about the kinds of questions to ask of any project. All the AdventureGamers members seem pretty level headed and probably don’t need this advice, but some non-AG projects I see getting funding do concern me, like Shadow of the Eternals.) There’s no doubt Kickstarter is a learning process for everyone involved, both project creators and backers—we’re all still trying to figure it out, and we’ll all gain a bit of wisdom about it as time goes on.

Anyway, what to do if MGX stays frozen is not really worth worrying about until we know more about MGX’s ultimate fate. For now, the best way to keep the publisher interested in MGX is by staying interested in it ourselves. That way when Jane advocates that there is an audience for MGX out there, she is believed. Never underestimate the power of tenacity. Best we can do is either move on with our lives in the meantime like Interplay or try to keep good humor about the whole thing and recite the mantra, “MGX will happen. Keep the faith!”

Blackthorne - 02 August 2013 02:36 PM

Remind me to send Ozzie some lipstick, because his lips MUST be chapped.

ALL THE FREAKING TIME!!
Thanks for the worries, but I fear the shipping costs would be tenfold the costs of the lipstick.

Signed final contract!!!  Squeeeeeeeeee!!! 

In before GK1 HD remake reveal!

Nelza - 30 August 2013 10:55 PM

Signed final contract!!!  Squeeeeeeeeee!!! 

Very glad to hear it, and thanks for the heads up! I see the latest backer update is just now available but I hadn’t gotten the notification e-mail for it yet. And even if I had, that last little status update sentence about the contract might have slipped past me otherwise. Good news that things are coming along again.

tomimt - 31 August 2013 03:36 AM

That’s honestly the first worthwhile update they’ve given about MGX.

This. Im cautiously letting myself feel excited again.

Caliburn - 31 August 2013 02:15 AM

Very glad to hear it, and thanks for the heads up! I see the latest backer update is just now available but I hadn’t gotten the notification e-mail for it yet. And even if I had, that last little status update sentence about the contract might have slipped past me otherwise. Good news that things are coming along again.

I must’ve seen my email just as it had come through!  I almost missed that last little bit too!  I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned in the body of Jane’s email.  But I’m really excited again!  I have a feeling the press-release may not happen until next year with the two new consoles coming. 

ok. apparently official that phoenix is developing mgx. And an expected release date of july of next year.
im completely confused. I have no idea what to expect anymore.