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Mystery Game X - Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, 20th Anniversary Edition
Is there anyone commenting on this thread that actually likes anything other than retro/old games & action/RPG?
Sorry Shnubble, I just don’t remember having a discussion with you or about this or the titles either – please remind me! I’ve already mentioned that I haven’t got around to playing GK yet & haven’t made any comments so far so really don’t know what you are talking about there!
To be honest I don’t remember who it was, but “we” had that topic already in this thread and several titles with convincing graphics in different styles and with different budgets had been mentioned. Like Heavy Rain, Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Ghost Trick, everything from Amanita, Daedalic, Dreamfall Chapters, Kentucky Road Zero and so on.
Right after we talked about some Adventure Fans being apologetic you came in and seemingly tried to narrow the criteria for a comparison with GK20 down even further, thus being apologetic. This is where the “See?” came from. Sorry for any confusion.
Yes, agreed! But in the greater scale of things that’s just 2 games so far! – any more?
Why? Like said, we have plenty of good looking adventures with all kinds of budgets that made the best they could with what they had, while at the same time being aware of their limits instead of overreaching.
As a true adventure fan
Is there anyone commenting on this thread that actually likes anything other than retro/old games & action/RPG?
Again with this bullshit?
The presentation of AGs is a valid point but the fact is that as a niche genre I think it’s doing pretty well in that department! Realistically the graphics are not at the mo going to match the awesome graphics of big budget releases so there’s no point wanging on about ‘low standards’ & it’s a shame that players can’t either play a game to enjoy and/or constructively criticise based on their personal experience rather than going into to a rant about how awful the graphics were & even worse dissecting every point of the game - aaaaagh! And even worse than that constantly pick on the developers because ultimately they have a style that YOU DON’T LIKE!
No. There is style and sensible decision making and there is poor craftsmanship and decision making. The points I raised are clear signs of poor craftsmanship or decision making and I raised them simply because some seem oblivious to the difference. That’s nice for them but doesn’t make the problems go away. Also while good craftsmanship is linked to money in most cases, poor decision making is not.
The original game of GK is available & playable for the foreseeable future & I think it’s great that a remake has been made that may engage new fans to JJ’s wonderful story who otherwise may never have entertained it via the old windowed, pixellated version!
We’ll see how many that will be in the end and what GK4 will look like if it’s ever made. But understand that I’m not attempting to take your interpretation away from you. Mine is simply different. Enjoy the game, recommend it to others, I don’t care.
Like said, we have plenty of good looking adventures with all kinds of budgets that made the best they could with what they had, while at the same time being aware of their limits instead of overreaching.
The distinction between “best they could with what they had” and “over-reaching” is extremely foggy. Seems to me, if you personally like it, it suddenly becomes “best they could with what they had,” and if you dislike it, it becomes “over-reaching their limits.”
Must be something genetically wrong with me since I like the overall aesthetic look of this remake despite it being a scientific fact that it’s totally wrong. 
If one would dream I would very much like GK4 to look and work like Frogwares recent games though. I think it would be a natural evolution from where the third game left off and I think exploring the environments in full 3D would be very beneficial for a GK game.
NP: A Link Between Worlds, Beneath a Steel Sky and Vampyr
Like said, we have plenty of good looking adventures with all kinds of budgets that made the best they could with what they had, while at the same time being aware of their limits instead of overreaching.
The distinction between “best they could with what they had” and “over-reaching” is extremely foggy. Seems to me, if you personally like it, it suddenly becomes “best they could with what they had,” and if you dislike it, it becomes “over-reaching their limits.”
That’s true to a degree, of course, but simply put, both conditions have to be met.
Just doing the best you can alone is not enough. You can say you don’t like the style of Machinarium, but you can’t say the backgrounds are poorly done.
When it comes to GK20 there are simply many faults one can point out.
The animation/motioncapture? Poorly implemented with many glitches.
Lighting and shadowcasting of realtime characters?: Poor (Objectively so, I dare someone to say otherwise)
Typography: Poor (Someone linked to POS’s about-page earlier in this thread and it too shows they urgently need someone with a design background in their team. Horrible choice of font.)
Style: Changing between scenes and within scenes.
I’m picking out one of the worst offenders here, obviously, and the screen has been improved (a little) since then, but someone made the decision to release this mess:
You tell me if this is an acceptable quality for a Gabriel Knight game in your opinion.
People complain if these points are raised again and again, but they do exist.
I don’t care if people are happily ignoring them, but it bothers me if they try to paint them as a matter of taste or demand that everyone should do the same.
The distinction between “best they could with what they had” and “over-reaching” is extremely foggy. Seems to me, if you personally like it, it suddenly becomes “best they could with what they had,” and if you dislike it, it becomes “over-reaching their limits.”
The two things describe opposite situations: One is when the developers realize they have limited resources/skills (or just enjoy working in a simpler look), and choose a style they are able to excel at, like the stark polygons of Kentucky Route Zero, the stylized characters and stylishly sketched backgrounds of The Journey Down, or the low-res pixel paintings and animations of Blackwell Epiphany and Quest for Infamy. The artists have accepted certain restrictions and made a virtue of them.
The other is where indie/low-budget games try to compete with AAA titles on their own turf, insisting on high-def, “realistic” graphics and animations that they can’t execute consistently, well or without cutting a lot of corners. (Among the many examples of this, one egregious one that comes to mind is the original version of Al Emmo, with embarrassingly incompetent 3D cut scenes.)
Yes, it’s still ultimately a subjective evaluation of quality (and few examples will be “pure” one way or the other); but I think just as someone with a good ear can tell a good vocal performance from a bad one, Shnubble is right that certain flaws of execution within the chosen graphic style are pretty undeniable to someone with an eye for it. Different people can like or dislike certain styles more than others, but it shouldn’t be entirely impossible to agree roughly on how a game ranks against other examples of a similar style, even if different people have a higher or lower threshold of acceptance. (Personally, from what I’ve seen of GK20 it passes my threshold when it comes to the technical quality of the graphics: I just don’t particularly like this graphic style or some of the aesthetic choices.)
Thank you, I think that sums it up nicely.
Listen everybody, I’m sorry if I offended anyone and I want to stop posting in this thread. I don’t know why I wasn’t smart enough to stay out of it for good and I was pretty harsh. I’m not out to get POS, I even remember defending them in some discussion about Moebius. I didn’t want to insult any artist working on the game, I don’t know the closer circumstances, but I realize some will take it personally.
There is no denying POS have improved between projects and they surely will improve again. Enough for me? Probably not and this doesn’t change the way I think about GK20, but there are people out there who enjoyed it and everyone involved can be proud they brought those people some entertainment.
What I really don’t like, though, is when people don their white armor and paint every outspoken critique as some weird and unfounded nitpicking or feel entitled to throw insults at anyone who says something they don’t want to hear. And god forbid something is said more than once. It’s not that I don’t understand why some of you are annoyed, it’s that this annoyance doesn’t entitle you to bullshit like calling others trolls, being not true adventure fans or making things up like they’d try to deny you your right to enjoy the game. Or that anal plug crap. Simply because you can´t cope with the fact that this game has some undeniable problems and people keep pointing them out and draw their own conclusions. And if this conclusion is that this game is a lost opportunity then so be it.
What I really don’t like, though, is when people don their white armor and paint every outspoken critique as some weird and unfounded nitpicking or feel entitled to throw insults at anyone who says something they don’t want to hear
You are just a tool who is taking this tone on PoS because nomadsoul inspired you and he is main architect of this hate.
You should keep your deviant opinions to yourself , as we don’t fathom anyone contrary to our set of AG belief system.
We are circle jerks and we are easy to please.
Witness, Rime, EBGTRapture, EthanCarter, UnifinishedSwan, Journey, D4 etc. are not adventures and few games that looked good and have really really high budgets made by more than 30 people.
Cecil was wrong to listen to critics and change the model of George in BS5 and i don’t know why he added more detail to the environments when original reveal looked so good.
Okay, that’s all the self-righteous sanctimony I’m willing to tolerate.
Neither “side” has any claim to a moral high ground here. And as usual, the people who can’t play nice ruin things for everybody.
This thread is dead.
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