Adventure Gamers - Forums

Karlok - 12 May 2016 04:54 AM

Really? I love the creative, ingenious, crazy puzzles in the Edna and Deponia games. The Whispered World was a bit more traditional, but had some nice ones too. A New Beginning was mediocre, puzzlewise.  Haven’t played the memoria/darkeye etc. games, not my cup of tea.

I thought you would like Memoria. Hotheaded female protagonist, some charming characters too.

For me Memoria stands out from the bunch because they were experimenting with adding more varied puzzles. Using spells, constructing visions, a stealth sequence (not QTE-style), the demon investigation, the forest search sequence.

It was a step up but not huge. They are still using the tradicional formula and not really experimenting much, which I am ok with.

I would rank their top 5
1 The Whispered World
2 Edna & Harvey: The Breakout
3 Night of the Rabbit
4 Memoria
5 Harveys New Eyes

Advie - 11 May 2016 01:25 PM

I dont know this is getting hard to believe, even if Daedalic yet to stick with the real adventures games beside these story driven upcomings i would still be very disappointed, very.

and lancelot, you have to proceed little at the new KQ to taste its magic. the least to say its very nice to see this kind of production happening to an adventure game these days.

Well, my playthrough of the third episode of KQ included two sliding block puzzles; two clock puzzles; two sequences of climbing the tower; two more “action” sequences with very poor cueing; one musical puzzle; one “learn by dying” puzzle. I don’t see anything creative or interesting about any of those.

I actually think that if someone decides to try one of the “modern style” AGs and chooses KQ, he’ll conclude that AGs are just as absurd and frustrating as he remembers them. I don’t really want to pick on KQ (maybe in some other thread), I was just thinking about what interesting things can be done with inventory-less puzzles.

Old games often had much more creativity in their puzzles. Loom, of course, and it has nothing in common with typical god-awful musical puzzles. Monkey Island—some truly horrid stuff there (I seriously think that “How to Get Ahead in Navigating” is one of the worst puzzles ever, something that only the designer could find amusing) but at the same time very “modern” things like getting an NPC to do something and observing his actions.

I suppose text adventures had some good inventory-less puzzles, but that’s because they could allow such a large variety of actions. Like having to kneel to appear shorter in Eric the Unready. That would be a tad difficult to implement with a one-click interface.

Anna’s Quest should be added to this (ages old, but still….) poll. It is one of their best, if not the best, game Daedelic made.

EDIT: Do “Lots of Spot uses” count as “Story-driven puzzles”? That’s the only way I can think that I can forgive them for the lack of inventory puzzles….

lancelot - 12 May 2016 12:09 PM

Advie - 11 May 2016 01:25 PM

I dont know this is getting hard to believe, even if Daedalic yet to stick with the real adventures games beside these story driven upcomings i would still be very disappointed, very.

and lancelot, you have to proceed little at the new KQ to taste its magic. the least to say its very nice to see this kind of production happening to an adventure game these days.

Well, my playthrough of the third episode of KQ included two sliding block puzzles; two clock puzzles; two sequences of climbing the tower; two more “action” sequences with very poor cueing; one musical puzzle; one “learn by dying” puzzle. I don’t see anything creative or interesting about any of those.

I actually think that if someone decides to try one of the “modern style” AGs and chooses KQ, he’ll conclude that AGs are just as absurd and frustrating as he remembers them. I don’t really want to pick on KQ (maybe in some other thread), I was just thinking about what interesting things can be done with inventory-less puzzles.

Old games often had much more creativity in their puzzles. Loom, of course, and it has nothing in common with typical god-awful musical puzzles. Monkey Island—some truly horrid stuff there (I seriously think that “How to Get Ahead in Navigating” is one of the worst puzzles ever, something that only the designer could find amusing) but at the same time very “modern” things like getting an NPC to do something and observing his actions.

I suppose text adventures had some good inventory-less puzzles, but that’s because they could allow such a large variety of actions. Like having to kneel to appear shorter in Eric the Unready. That would be a tad difficult to implement with a one-click interface.

There are so, so many creative things that can be done without an inventory without resorting to slider puzzles, mini-games and mazes.

Off the top of my head:

Stacking/Journeyman Project - Becoming someone else to get past an obstacle;
The Whispered World - Using Spot’s shapeshifting ability for various things;
Contradiction - The central mechanic of finding contradicting statements to uncover more evidence;
Life is Strange - Time rewind ability allowing you to change events in the past;
Amanita games (Botanicula, Samorost) - Visual puzzles and finding the right order from visual or audio clues. The terrific card puzzle in Samorost 3 is a good example;
Tex Murphy/Monkey Island - Dialogue puzzles (insult swordfighting, interrogation, persuasion etc);
Talos Principle - Placing multiple objects in a spatial environment in a certain order or arrangement;
Portal/The Witness - One simple mechanic (opening portals or drawing lines) but with enormous depth and range;
The Last Express - Puzzles involving figuring out NPC routines and timing;
Phoenix Wright - Courtroom gameplay of raising events or items to prove or disprove something;
Miasmata - Mapping and navigation using triangulation;
The Experiment - Leading another NPC from a computer interface using signalling;
Bad Mojo - Navigating an area and bypassing obstacles without carrying anything;
Gabriel Knight 3 - Le Serpent Rouge (computer analysis and riddle solving);
Memento Mori 2 - Forensic puzzles: fingerprint analysis, document recovery etc
Multiple character puzzles (DOTT/Goblins/Resonance/Two Brothers) Using more than one protagonist to achieve an objective.
Numerous text adventures (Enchanter, Hadean Lands) - Spell casting and manipulation in unique ways to bypass obstacles.

This is without even mentioning the classic Mystian technique of interpreting environmental clues or notes to figure out devices, or doing so through experimentation.

The possibilities are endless, it just takes some invention and creativity to come up with them.

Even if you think of the best inventory puzzles - finding items for the Cutifier in Toonstruck, for example - do they really require an inventory? Many of them don’t.

Iznogood - 13 May 2016 11:13 AM

Oscar - 13 May 2016 04:29 AM

There are so, so many creative things that can be done without an inventory without resorting to slider puzzles, mini-games and mazes.

Off the top of my head:
...

Sure there are plenty of things you can do without an inventory, and some of the best and my favourite puzzles are not inventory based.

The problem is that there has been exactly zero indication that that is what they are planning for Silence, and every indication that they are planning on taking the Telltale route instead

Hmm, maybe. Although, wouldn’t they say “no puzzles” if that were the case? Not “no inventory puzzles”?

Can practically there be a game that can satisfy both TTG and puzzle lovers crowd?
If you go for one other is pissed
I dont recall a game recently pleasing both segments

Machinarium had best puzzles btw, that List by Oscar, he is Phd in AGs

That’s a good idea advie. May I borrow it for a new thread? (or you can start it) 

nomadsoul - 13 May 2016 12:00 PM

Can practically there be a game that can satisfy both TTG and puzzle lovers crowd?

I think if the story is strong enough either a game with or without puzzles can engage the same AG player that doesn’t have a fixed idea about the experience - I know as I’m one of them.