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Old 08-04-2004, 09:16 AM   #1
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Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

Highly recommended. I played the demo (which is a level not in the full game) to death like a sex starved nympho in a cashmere lined room full of Christian Bale clones, and then I finally got the full game. One of the first things you notice is the obscenely vast sense of scale of this gameworld, interesting for its tension between the dizzyingly colossal architecture and the comparably tiny brilliant minds who built them and populate them. Acrophobes be warned. I cranked up all the graphics settings (except for volumetric shadows, which slowed down the framerates considerably but were atmospherically useless anyway), and Kyle's universe came into sharp focus with sheer sceen-lickable precision.

And all that before I finally got my lightsaber. Those of you who've played this otherwise underappreciated spectacle, you know what I mean. The lightsaber is as close as you'll get to a high tech sex toy surrogate. I mean, that mofo is up there with Alice's darkly twisted toy arsenal. And in combination with your increasing force powers, well....let's just say that it's practically sinful. Gameplaywise, there are near Half-Life moments where I would enter a room and all hell would break loose.

** I originally posted this at Idle Forums but wanted to share it with the AG whores, so all you IT members: Shaddup!
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Old 08-04-2004, 10:10 AM   #2
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You originally posted this on the Idle Thumbs forum

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Old 08-04-2004, 10:56 AM   #3
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The correct acronym is Idle-T, foo'.

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Old 08-04-2004, 11:36 AM   #4
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I played through the demo until I lost count of how many times before I finally got the game. It is indeed impressive, but after you get the saber the game becomes a lot easier. After I got it, the only times I used another weapon were when I a) went up against an AT-ST, or b) when I had to use the Disruptor Rifle to pick someone off from a distance. Other than that, the saber's the way to go.

By the way, Jedi Academy is a fun diversion too, with some memorable moments. There are more vehicles to ride besides the AT-ST, like a swoop bike and a tauntaun, which is more fun than it sounds. (Although the swoop bike gives me horrible flashbacks of the swoop level in Shadows of the Empire.) The best part is later in the game when you get a lightstaff or dual sabers. I went the dual-saber route since I've thought that two lightsabers were the coolest thing ever since I fought Boc in Jedi Knight. ("You're an angry one, aren't you?")

And personally, I think that the final battle (either one, light side or dark side,) is a lot better than the final battle in Jedi Outcast. Desann used the slow, strong, "Vader Style," whereas the final opponent in Jedi Academy, (either one,) uses Darth Maul-style attacks.

Spoiler:
Since this is spoiler territory, I'm going to say that Kyle uses wrestling holds on you if you get too close, which is awesome. And Tavion has a flaming sword, which rocks. Not a lightsaber, a physical sword which is on fire. Tavion's a LOT harder, too.
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Old 08-04-2004, 11:48 AM   #5
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I'm getting Jedi Academy once I find enough more change under the couch.
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:48 PM   #6
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I own Jedi Outcast on my Gamecube since earlier this year (and lo; the game even learned me how to do fps with a gamepad!), and I loved it too. I didn't really feel it was spectacular, but I had a serious good time with it. I was particularly surprised at how well you could fight with your lightsabre, swinging it around, throwing it, and how well the force powers were integrated in the fighting. I recall that in Jedi Knight, the lightsabre was a fun weapon, but fairly useless in a lot of situations. Here it really IS the game.

I did kind of miss the hint of non-linearity that was choosing which side you were on, but in the end it didn't matter. Oh, and I should mention that my version of the game was harder than yours. You see, I bought the game in France for a ridiculous low price, and the clerk assured me there'd be an english talkie on it. Nuh-uh. My French is adequate though, and the upside is that I now know how to speak "jedi" in French. Que la Force soit avec toi, Kyle.
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Old 08-04-2004, 12:57 PM   #7
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The lightsaber in Jedi Knight holds my personal award as the single most disappointing weapon in game history. Not because it was bad; it was fun to use. But because it could have, and SHOULD have been so much more. Jedi Outcast handles it perfectly by making it so powerful. You're a freaking JEDI! You shouldn't HAVE to use any other weapons! No self-respecting Jedi carries a blaster!
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Old 08-04-2004, 03:06 PM   #8
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Great, now I can finish my ramble about what I would wanna see in Jedi Knight 3.

First of all, the objects you can interact with using force push/pull or grasp wouldn't be prescripted, or ruled by whether the object is human or not. The physics engine would calculate the mass of the object, your Jedi's power, and thus see whether you can push it, pull it, or even raise it up and fling it around. I also feel these basic functions shouldn't be limited to "push forward/pull toward" but that there should be an innovative, mouse controled way of wielding the force in many directions. Kinda like what was done with the grasp function at the 3rd level of strenght in JK2, but applied to more of the force powers. I see visions of flinging objects at opposing Jedi, like Vader did at Luke. Also, traps that the designers left lying around for you, that you can manipulate to your advantage, a la Half Life 2 (if you've seen the trailers)

Second, I want to see the vehicle segments expanded to include space dog-fighting. Remember when Vader said "the force is strong with this one"? How does that look when you are the one wielding it? Imagine applying all the powers you have to space combat: force speed for better control of the fighter and avoiding incoming fire, force push for diverting incoming projectiles, mind control for confusing the pursuers, or even having one of them fight on your side. This sounds fun enough, that it could even work as a stand-alone game, where you not only upgrade your ship, but learn new powers as you progress. "Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter", anyone? Maybe, maybe not.

Those are my prime wishes for the next gen Jedi game. What do you guys think? What would you wanna see?
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Old 08-04-2004, 08:14 PM   #9
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Mares, you make great points on what should go on another Jedi Knight game should there be one; perhaps you should forward those ideas to the proper groups....

For multiplayer, I found Jedi Academy to be far more entertaining due to the more fluid movements and added ones at that, particularly when wielding dual sabers, my preferred choice of weapon over the staff saber. Unfortunately the story does not hold throughout the game unlike Outcast as it is episodic in nature but nevertheless, it still is a fun game to play (just re-played it a couple of weeks ago).

For those interested, there are a number of mods out there for both Outcast and Academy:

http://www.lucasfiles.com/index.php?...09b9524bf26053

I personally use the realistic saber mod which are based on the sabers as represented in the movies. I find the original saber found in both games to be far too thin for my taste.

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Old 08-04-2004, 11:30 PM   #10
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I felt a bit let down by the lightsaber in both outcast and academy. When academy was being developed I was hoping in vain that they'd have a 'master' level of saber control on par with that available in die by the sword, or at least the inclusion of combos lifted from soul calibur 2 or the like.

They addressed some of the control issues in academy but there really wasn't enough combo's, especially ones that mesh with your choice of jedi powers. I actually found the saber choices in Academy redundant... if you want to look cool then sure, pick up the double bladed saber or dual sabers but from a game balance perspective you might as well bend over and ask to be spanked.

On anything higher than normal difficulty the lack of combos and weakened damage both styles bring with them make the game extremely difficult. Its a far easier game to finish on 'Jedi Master' difficulty when you stick with a single light saber and use the particular stances (light, medium, heavy) and their corresponding force combinations against appropriate enemies (ie: force stab, leap attack, greater cleave).

I agree 100% the game needs a kick in the ass in getting some clever force powers happening, the tired use of push/pull puzzles are frustrating, KOTOR is equally guilty of a lack of imagination with force related puzzles. I find the 'mana' system annoying too, especially when the bad guys are given near unlimited pools to draw from and you're stuck there swearing at the screen waiting for the little blue bar to fill up again...
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:19 AM   #11
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I picked dual lightsabers, you're right, so I'd look cool, but sometimes I would holster one of them, to take advantage of the single saber fight stances. There were certain advantages, however, to the various lightsaber choices. My brother beat the game with the lightstaff, and he said that the ability to kick the opponents was an immense advantage. With dual sabers, you could throw one, and fight with the other. Hmm...I don't think this actually helped much in any situation. Generally though, it just looked cool.

What kinda character race/gender/clothing/saber color & style did you guys pick playing Academy? I remember starting the game out many times, trying out numerous combos, until I was absolutely satisfied w/ the look of my Jedi. I considered detail as minute as how a certain saber color reflected off her skin. At one point, having played through like a quarter of the game, I decided I wasn't entirely satisfied w/ my character's look, and restarted it once again, to pick my final look. Funny how that custimization is so important to some people, eh? I'd miss that ability, if it were to be absent in the next Jedi Knight game. Unless of course the main character and his story fascinated me enough to not care.

Anyway, my character was a Twylek babe in a borg-like black outfit (the top had an armored arm). I even had her skin be a light greenish color to her skin, to complete the borg look. Her head & tendrils had a black leather belt wrapped around them (the best I can describe it). Also, I decided upon purple light saber color, because it was in nice contrast to her skin tone. It actually kinda complemented her complexion. If you still have the game, try generating her, and say if she isn't a badass looking jedi! Her face has that innocent youth look, but is replete with a serious dose of punk-rock rebellion. Standing next to Luke in their respective black costumes, she seemed like a worthy succesor to the greatest jedi of them all! Man, I'm such a dork. :eek:
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:57 AM   #12
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Old 08-05-2004, 03:25 AM   #13
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Although I did find that lightsabres battles were a bit willy-nilly sometimes in Jedi Outcast. At times you'd just slice through without taking any damage (when battling other sabre-wielding people), and sometimes you'd die time after time... although the level of control was extented and fine, there just seemed to be a lack of strategy during the lightsabrebattles.

Jedi Knight 2 spoiler

Spoiler:
And during the fight with the imperial general Galak Fyar, the lightsabre was effectively useless. I ended up getting so mad at him that I'd just grabbed my rocketlauncher, shot at him until his shield was down and them blasted him to hell. And seeing that the rocketlauncher only packs 10 rockets, that was a surprisingly easy way to defeat him. The battle with Desann proved to be even easier though, just hacking with your sabre.
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Old 08-05-2004, 04:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mares
I picked dual lightsabers, you're right, so I'd look cool, but sometimes I would holster one of them, to take advantage of the single saber fight stances.
Unfortunately it didn't work that way, as soon as you pick dual sabers or staff saber, while you can holster one the single style you get is a castrated version of medium stance, none of the force power combo's work (you can't leap attack for example), and you can't change stances (heavy/medium/light) anymore, even though you previously learnt them.

If you stick with single saber you not only look good while running (the other stances force your animation to look constipated ), but you can use force pull and light stance to gut your opponents, medium and force jump to leap over bad guys while chopping at their head, and heavy + force jump from a long distance to cleave bad guys in two. Plus heavy stance always damages on hit even if they're blocking.

The only time I ever threw my lightsaber was while I had them hanging in the air from force grip, since they're holding their throat they can't block the saber.

I loved the customisation in Academy, I felt there should be more I ended up using the console to change player model tops so I could always use the Hoth outfit white jacket ala Princess Leia.
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Old 08-05-2004, 12:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
Although I did find that lightsabres battles were a bit willy-nilly sometimes in Jedi Outcast. At times you'd just slice through without taking any damage (when battling other sabre-wielding people), and sometimes you'd die time after time... although the level of control was extented and fine, there just seemed to be a lack of strategy during the lightsabrebattles.
You'd lack strategy only if you ignore studying all the moves and combos. The printed manual outlines them. It's fairly intricate in JKII (but more so in JA), and if you invest more time and patience I think you really can develop a tangible advantage over your opponents. This was my particular weakness in head-to-head saber fights, I should have trained more. Think about it, the battles really are quite complex and you can replay each one using different strategies. I preferred using the fast style (blue) overall (once I acquired it, of course).

I found that using the environment in combination with my force powers was highly effective. I used my quick wits mixed with saber skills and environmental awareness. My main tactics were to lure opponents to steep drops or trip mine traps I've set, having evil jedis follow me to areas more advantageous for me, and ducking in tight places to heal and recharge during fights. Customizing your strategies to gain an edge over different jedis is crucial. I discovered that Reborns can be more easily defeated using diagonal slashes, forward lunges, and crouching slashes in combination with force speed and high jumps. The 'ninja' jedis (as I call them, the ones with the green crystals) are really annoying because of their invisibility and quickness, so I use the fast saber style (blue) with strafing and horizontal swipe attacks in combination with [300% to 400%] force speed. They are impossible to get with direct attacks so you have use the 'side door' method.

For a large amount of storm troopers it pays to use the mind trick. At skill level 2 of this, 'distract' 2 or 3 of them first and attack the others, then go back and kill the ones you mind tricked. At level 3 of the skill, simply use your 'charms' to befriend 1 or 2 of them and let them kill all the others for you, then kill them.

Quote:
Spoiler:
And during the fight with the imperial general Galak Fyar, the lightsabre was effectively useless. I ended up getting so mad at him that I'd just grabbed my rocketlauncher, shot at him until his shield was down and them blasted him to hell. And seeing that the rocketlauncher only packs 10 rockets, that was a surprisingly easy way to defeat him. The battle with Desann proved to be even easier though, just hacking with your sabre.
Fyyar was such a bitch (but he's really good looking, heh heh, too bad he's evil ).
Spoiler:
I died too many times. Finally I figured it out - cut down his defensive shield (with your strongest guns) and while he's vulnerable slash him repeatedly with your saber, repeat as necessary, but be very careful and stay behind him while you slash away or he'll kill you with a single blow. Use force speed to maneuver around his charges and use the pillars to your defensive advantage. Killing Desann was cakewalk, I can't believe how anticlimactic that was. I just used fast attack and force speed and slashed him to death, he was using strong attack. What a moron.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:22 AM   #16
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I still uphold my belief that Stormtroopers are the best cannon fodder ever. I relished in the experience of killing them in Dark Forces, and the fun hasn't died away since then. It's still grueling fun in Jedi Outcast (and probable Academy as well).

Spoiler:
Oh by the way, I just remembered that I laughed out hard at the TERRIBLE ending of this game XD Damn what anti-climactic cheesiness!
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:07 PM   #17
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I also heard that using the lightstaff was worth it just for the kicking, especially because there are so many loooong drops in Jedi Academy. The burial ground level on Chandrila is a perfect example. I'd keep using force push to try to push the dark jedi off of the catwalks, but they block about 90% of the time. With kick, it becomes a ton easier. You just have to get close, and WHAM! Weeeeeeeeeeeee....

As far as choice for my character went, I ended up going with the human male, just because the male voice sounded incredibly stupid with anyone besides a human. (I later downloaded voicepacks for the Kel Dor and Rodian, which work well.) I chose a leather-intensive red outfit since I wanted to play a "tortured-jedi" character. (e.g. Kyp Durron, one who often treads the line and slips into the dark side, but never falls completely.) To complement that, I had two sabers, one blue with a sleek silver handle, and one orange, with a very unusual and cool handle that I downloaded: it was black, with a small reptilian skull mounted around the blade projector, and a long curved blade made out of a bony claw at the other end. Although I started off with a purple saber.
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:48 PM   #18
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Oooooh, CR, your character sounds damn sexy. Can I, um.....have his phone number? I love dangerous tortured Jedi.

The Chandrila level was in the demo. Have you tried this strategy: lure the bad Jedi and force jump across any chasm; when they force jump to follow you immediately use force push on them when they're in mid air and send them plunging to hell. Works every time. Wit over brauns, baby. Also, you can force jump and land on top of them to knock them down and while they're struggling to get up immediately use force speed and start slashing away.

Wall walking and jumping are fun to do as well. One more thing: remember that you can roll out of harm's way whenever they knock you down - simply hit either left or right strafe key when you're still on the ground.
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:52 PM   #19
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I figured out the push-while-they're jumping bit pretty quickly. I would jump up onto a ledge, then wait for them to jump up to me. But kicking is a lot easier. Or you could kick them down, THEN push them over while they're getting up.
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:55 PM   #20
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It's even possible to waste them with your guns. If you have more than enough ammo, shoot them mercilessly across the chasms with your Heavy Repeater. The rate of fire is so insanely high that they can't possible saber block every single shot. If not kill them, you can at least weaken them to the point that you can just jump across and finish them off.
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