[insane_cobra]

It's a sports title, dear.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

By "non-hardcore" I meant everything but shooters and sports games as that's how you used the phrase. So yes, Viva Pinata, but also Alan Wake, Dead Rising, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect, The Shadow of Aten, Fable 2 and a buttload of XBLA games. Hell, even Dead or Alive Xtreme 2.
Unless you're so naive to consider that a sports title.

That's not a whole lot of games, but I think it's a much more interesting selection than what's been announced for PS3. And by announced I mean officially announced, not we-know-they'll-be-made-one-day games like next gen Ratchet and Clank.

Off topic? Do you see anyone who's on topic here?

Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 is targetted straight for the horny sex deprived male, who can't get it going.

Dead Rising and Lost Odyssey are again targetted for the XBOX 1 type of audience. Fable 2 is a sequel to a mediocre RPG, and Mass Effect is by far the most promising title.

Next gen ratchet and clank HAS been announced by Ted Price, and I'm positive we will see much much more console RPG's on the PS3. I think you are being a little harsh on the PS3 and their offerings when the console is not even out yet.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

OMG! You actually forgot Rockstar Presents Table Tennis?!!!



Well, it's out now and receiving favourable reviews, but still, it does fall well within the perimeters of 'non hardcore', don't it? I mean, hey, even The New York Times has just reviewed it. How 'non hardcore' is that? LOL!

Halo 3 will most probably be reviewed on the New York Times. Doesn't change the fact that it is targetted to only one type of audience.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Dead Rising and Lost Odyssey are again targetted for the XBOX 1 type of audience.

Not really, I see both as more PS2 type games.

Fable 2 is a sequel to a mediocre RPG, and Mass Effect is by far the most promising title.

Fable wasn't mediocre, just not what people expected from it.

Next gen ratchet and clank HAS been announced by Ted Price, and I'm positive we will see much much more console RPG's on the PS3. I think you are being a little harsh on the PS3 and their offerings when the console is not even out yet.

No I'm not, I'm talking about things the way they are now, not the way they might be one day. Right now, PS3 has almost nothing that interests me and that's the whole point.

I'm sick of people telling me "just you wait, you'll see". How long should I wait? Till they have something to show? Why should I do that when I can already get what I want elsewhere? Why should anyone but people most loyal to the brand? There's no guarantee PS3 will enjoy the same developer support as PS1 and PS2 did, just ask Nintendo how easy it is to lose the leading spot in the market after a decade of domination.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

I'm sick of people telling me "just you wait, you'll see". How long should I wait? Till they have something to show? Why should I do that when I can already get what I want elsewhere? Why should anyone but people most loyal to the brand? There's no guarantee PS3 will enjoy the same developer support as PS1 and PS2 did, just ask Nintendo how easy it is to lose the leading spot in the market after a decade of domination.

Well you can start by waiting till at least the console is out for one year? Look at XBOX 360's lineup NOW and tell me what it includes. Most of the games you mentioned are not even out yet. But remember that Final Fantasy XIII is going to Sony whereas MS got Final Fantasy XI (which was out on the PS2 ages ago), so the biggest RPG publisher in Japan has stated its support for Sony.

[Spiwak]

I'm getting sick of dumb fanboy arguments.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Well you can start by waiting till at least the console is out for one year?

Why can't I talk about games that have been announced?

Look at XBOX 360's lineup NOW and tell me what it includes.

You mean games that fit your previous definition of non-hardcore? Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion, Tomb Raider: Legend, Peter Jackson's King Kong, Gun, Hitman: Blood Money, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires. You may not find all of them attractive and neither do I, but they're all very good to great games and either next gen, console or absolute exclusives.

Most of the games you mentioned are not even out yet.

But when they do get released, Sony still won't have much to counter that line-up, judging by games currently announced for their console.

But remember that Final Fantasy XIII is going to Sony whereas MS got Final Fantasy XI (which was out on the PS2 ages ago), so the biggest RPG publisher in Japan has stated its support for Sony.

That's not surprising. If Microsoft got Final Fintasy XIII, they would have three most profitable franchises in their hands (Final Fantasy, Halo and GTA, which will also see release on PS3, but Xbox 360 gets exclusive episodic content). Still, they did get Final Fantasy XI which was completely unexpected, and Wii gets another FF:CC title so everyone's covered. More so, I watched an interview with Peter Moore in which he said they're negotiating with Square/Enix on daily basis about the next FF game. Yes, Final Fantasy XIV. Doesn't mean much, but shows that anything could happen.

Originally Posted by Spiwak

I'm getting sick of dumb fanboy arguments.

There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. I'm definitely not a fanboy, I didn't care for Xbox and even Xbox 360 didn't excite me much initially, but right now I think both Wii and Xbox 360 look much more promising than anything Sony had to show so far.

[Spiwak]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. I'm definitely not a fanboy, I didn't care for Xbox and even Xbox 360 didn't excite me much initially, but right now I think both Wii and Xbox 360 look much more promising than anything Sony had to show so far.

I agree, definitely. But you don't see me having heated debates with soccsie about something he's clearly pretty one-sided about. Let the ****er enjoy his PS3, I say.

[insane_cobra]

But I'm bored!

[Spiwak]

the cure

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Why can't I talk about games that have been announced?

You can definitely do that, but some of these "BIG" announcements you mention for the 360 have happened just this E3, so it's not fair to judge Sony NOW on their lineup, when they have 2 or 3 of their studios still developing games for the PS2. Once everyone moves on to the PS3, then you can fairly judge it.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

You mean games that fit your previous definition of non-hardcore? Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion, Tomb Raider: Legend, Peter Jackson's King Kong, Gun, Hitman: Blood Money, Dynasty Warriors 5 Empires. You may not find all of them attractive and neither do I, but they're all very good to great games and either next gen, console or absolute exclusives.

All multi-platform. But you are ignoring all the other games that fit that criteria.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

But when they do get released, Sony still won't have much to counter that line-up, judging by games currently announced for their console.

Metal Gear Solid 4, Assasin's Creed, and Heavenly Sword all look like great titles. And I don't know too much about Insomniac's shooter or Lair or Naughty Dog's game to judge them, but they can turn out to be good games as well. I mean Insomniac is the developer of Ratchet and Clank so they have a pretty promising pedigree, and Naughty Dog has the Jak franchise.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

That's not surprising. If Microsoft got Final Fintasy XIII, they would have three most profitable franchises in their hands (Final Fantasy, Halo and GTA, which will also see release on PS3, but Xbox 360 gets exclusive episodic content). Still, they did get Final Fantasy XI which was completely unexpected, and Wii gets another FF:CC title so everyone's covered. More so, I watched an interview with Peter Moore in which he said they're negotiating with Square/Enix on daily basis about the next FF game. Yes, Final Fantasy XIV. Doesn't mean much, but shows that anything could happen.

GTA is confirmed for both so that doesn't count. Sony has some pretty good exclusives too like God of War (I'm sure it will get a PS3 version), Metal Gear Solid 4, and Final Fantasy XIII.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

There's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. I'm definitely not a fanboy, I didn't care for Xbox and even Xbox 360 didn't excite me much initially, but right now I think both Wii and Xbox 360 look much more promising than anything Sony had to show so far.

I might be a fanboy if you must, but seriously who isn't. I know a lot of people claim otherwise, but it's just human to pick sides. But I wasn't always a Sony fanboy. I had my first PS2 less than 2 years ago and just to get something different than a PC (which the XBOX wasn't), and before that I only played Windows game, so my loyalty to Sony or anyone else is based on my experiences and enjoyment with their platform.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

But I'm bored!

Me too I am at work and without this argument here, I have to figure out why IE is crashing I prefer to entice the MS fanboys. Wonder why Trep is sitting on the sidelines.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Because I'm sick of it as well. C'mon guys, take this discussion to General Gaming and let's get back on topic - Dreamfall's 360 compatability, or adventure games on the console in general, if you will.

EDIT: Oh good, it's been moved to General Gaming.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Me too I am at work and without this argument here, I have to figure out why IE is crashing I prefer to entice the MS fanboys. Wonder why Trep is sitting on the sidelines.

He's too busy enjoying his 360.

You can definitely do that, but some of these "BIG" announcements you mention for the 360 have happened just this E3, so it's not fair to judge Sony NOW on their lineup, when they have 2 or 3 of their studios still developing games for the PS2. Once everyone moves on to the PS3, then you can fairly judge it.

Of course, I might change my opinion then, but right now I have little reason to look forward to PS3. Sony will definitely have a fair share of interesting games coming from it's own 1st and 2nd party studios (just like Nintendo had all along), but their 3rd party support might wane. Then again, it might not, I'm just saying it's a possibility and that right now (ie. in forseeable future) they have very little to offer, especially considering how much more money you should put aside for a PS3.

All multi-platform. But you are ignoring all the other games that fit that criteria.

They're not all multi-platform. Kameo is a total exclusive, Condemned, Oblivion and Gun are console exclusives (which is important because not all console gamers have PC-s that can run modern games) and the rest are the only next gen console versions at the moment (well, duh, but still true ).

EDIT: Correction - Gun is just a next gen exclusive.

And what do you mean I'm ignoring all others? Which ones? And does it matter? I'm just showing there's more than enough good non-hardcore games (again, by your definition) because you were implying there weren't.

Metal Gear Solid 4, Assasin's Creed, and Heavenly Sword all look like great titles. And I don't know too much about Insomniac's shooter or Lair or Naughty Dog's game to judge them, but they can turn out to be good games as well. I mean Insomniac is the developer of Ratchet and Clank so they have a pretty promising pedigree, and Naughty Dog has the Jak franchise.

Assasin's Creed should also come to 360 and I wouldn't bet MGS4 won't eventually.

I've been looking forward to Heavenly Sword, but I must say the E3 demonstration disappointed me. It looks great and is beautifully animated, but also gives the impression it could become quite boring in the long run. Still looks better than Too Human in its current state, though.

Naughty Dog's game was a big letdown for me, it looks generic. I'm willing to reserve my judgement until we laearn more about it, but right now I'm not interested one bit.

I am interested in Lair, however, but we've yet to see any gameplay footage.

Insomniac's shooter is, well, a shooter.

GTA is confirmed for both so that doesn't count.

Yet you'll agree that even that means A LOT for MS, especially when people might end up getting more (episodic content) on a cheaper platform.

I might be a fanboy if you must, but seriously who isn't. I know a lot of people claim otherwise, but it's just human to pick sides. But I wasn't always a Sony fanboy. I had my first PS2 less than 2 years ago and just to get something different than a PC (which the XBOX wasn't), and before that I only played Windows game, so my loyalty to Sony or anyone else is based on my experiences and enjoyment with their platform.

Like I said. there's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with being a fan, but fanboys tend to ignore all facts that contradict their positions and blindly defend their platforms of choice. I don't think you're quite there yet, but you'd know better.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Their 3rd party support might wane. Then again, it might not, I'm just saying it's a possibility and that right now (ie. in forseeable future) they have very little to offer, especially considering how much more money you should put aside for a PS3.

Their third party support is still there, with pretty much most of the 360 upcoming 3rd party games announced for the PS3 as well. Take a look at ubisoft's upcoming lineup of games for example. Microsoft themselves definitely have good third party support this generation, but I haven't seen Sony's yet waning.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

They're not all multi-platform. Kameo is a total exclusive, Condemned, Oblivion and Gun are console exclusives (which is important because not all console gamers have PC-s that can run modern games) and the rest are the only next gen console versions at the moment (well, duh, but still true ).

Gun was a pretty bad 360 port. Kameo is not that good of a game by Rare. Condemned and Oblivion are both PC games, with only the last one being the sole GREAT game released for the 360 console so far.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

And what do you mean I'm ignoring all others? Which ones? And does it matter? I'm just showing there's more than enough good non-hardcore games (again, by your definition) because you were implying there weren't.

Let's put it this way, the 360 has pretty much the same type of lineup as the XBOX. Shooters, sports games, the multi-platform games and such. The XBOX was known as a platform for the hardcore gamer, and the 360 seems to be following closely in its footsteps.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Assasin's Creed should also come to 360 and I wouldn't bet MGS4 won't eventually.

Possible though not confirmed yet. Assasin's Creed I am sure will transition to the 360 but MGS hasn't done well on the XBOX so it's still questionable if it will move to the 360 (just look at MGS3 which is still a PS2 exclusive).

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

I've been looking forward to Heavenly Sword, but I must say the E3 demonstration disappointed me. It looks great and is beautifully animated, but also gives the impression it could become quite boring in the long run. Still looks better than Too Human in its current state, though.

I read an interview with those guys where they were saying that E3 only showcased the fighting in the game, but that the game is very much an Action-Adventure with a story behind it. The demo was more for the WOW factor.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Naughty Dog's game was a big letdown for me, it looks generic. I'm willing to reserve my judgement until we laearn more about it, but right now I'm not interested one bit.

I am interested in Lair, however, but we've yet to see any gameplay footage.

Exactly we don't know too much about them. But I know that Naughty Dog's prior games were pretty darn good, so that's why I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. Lair is a big question mark for me. It looks cool but I just know nothing about it.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Insomniac's shooter is, well, a shooter.

So is Gears of War and Halo, but they are for reason cast as the holy grail of gaming.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Yet you'll agree that even that means A LOT for MS, especially when people might end up getting more (episodic content) on a cheaper platform.

It's not like GTA wasn't available for the XBOX. You could get San Andreas only 6 months after it was released for the PS2.

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Like I said. there's a difference between being a fan and being a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with being a fan, but fanboys tend to ignore all facts that contradict their positions and blindly defend their platforms of choice. I don't think you're quite there yet, but you'd know better.

I am not ignoring any facts at all, I actually know EXACTLY what is inside the 360 and the PS3, and what they both have to offer, what games are announced for them and so on. Both have enough exclusive first party games to interest me, but for now I give the nudge to the PS3 based on my experience with their prior gen consoles.

[CrimsonBlue]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

So in theory, Xbox games look much better, the ones I played anyway. Unlike the PS3, all the PS2 & PS1 game will not be 'made pretty'.

The PS3 will play the PS2 and PS1 games in hi-def.

And regarding the whole Xbox 360, it's kinda insulting to call sports games and shooters "hardcore" games. I mean, FIFA? What's hardcore about that? I wouldn't call Table Tennis a hardcore game either.

Also, do you really have to like shooters to be a hardcore gamer? I prefer to look at a hardcore gamer as someone who is deeply into the gaming hobby. I hate shooters, I play a couple of soccer games, and I liked Table Tennis, but wouldn't consider myself as a fan of sports games. I love a good platformer, but it's gotta be really good, like Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank. Not like Super Mario Sunshine, that was just tedious. Racing games are one of my all-time favourite genres, but I see myself getting less and less excited about them. I love Metal Gear Solid games and I really enjoyed Tomb Raider Legend. I'd also say games like KOTOR and Jade Empire is pretty hardcore. It's not a game for casual gamers, not even the slightest.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Any official statement from Sony to verify that?

[CrimsonBlue]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Any official statement from Sony to verify that?

Hmmm, I'm sure it's been said over and over again, but I can't find the official statement. But if you look around a bit, it's out there.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Their third party support is still there, with pretty much most of the 360 upcoming 3rd party games announced for the PS3 as well. Take a look at ubisoft's upcoming lineup of games for example. Microsoft themselves definitely have good third party support this generation, but I haven't seen Sony's yet waning.

It has a great third party support, even better than anyone else at the moment, but future support depends on how well the market accepts PS3. It's too early to talk about that, I agree, I just want to point out that developer support isn't set in stone.

Let's put it this way, the 360 has pretty much the same type of lineup as the XBOX. Shooters, sports games, the multi-platform games and such. The XBOX was known as a platform for the hardcore gamer, and the 360 seems to be following closely in its footsteps.

You're mostly right, but Microsoft has put a lot of effort into diversifying their offer, what with all the XBLA games, increased japanese developer support and aqusitions of studios like Rare. We'll see if they succeed in that, but it seems to me they're on the right track.

I read an interview with those guys where they were saying that E3 only showcased the fighting in the game, but that the game is very much an Action-Adventure with a story behind it. The demo was more for the WOW factor.

We'll see, even their tech wasn't that impressive if we consider how small and enclosed that arena was. Still, the previous trailer sure looked nice and they seem like a nice bunch of people so I hope they manage to deliver on that.

On a related note, I read an interview with Silicon Knights in which they claim Too Human's E3 showing wasn't really representative of the game either, so it's possible we'll get two great action adventure brawlers in the end.

So is Gears of War and Halo, but they are for reason cast as the holy grail of gaming.

No, I just meant to say that it dosn't fin into your imposed frame of non-hardcore games.

It's not like GTA wasn't available for the XBOX. You could get San Andreas only 6 months after it was released for the PS2.

That's a big difference from having it available on both platforms from day one, though.

I am not ignoring any facts at all, I actually know EXACTLY what is inside the 360 and the PS3, and what they both have to offer, what games are announced for them and so on. Both have enough exclusive first party games to interest me, but for now I give the nudge to the PS3 based on my experience with their prior gen consoles.

That's all fine and dandy, but this whole thing started with you poking fun at supposed crappy quality of 360 games and now you're kind of contradicting yourself.

Ha ha, loooooser!

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

And regarding the whole Xbox 360, it's kinda insulting to call sports games and shooters "hardcore" games. I mean, FIFA? What's hardcore about that? I wouldn't call Table Tennis a hardcore game either.

I'm a bit confused. Whose definition of 'hardcore' are you using? I thought hardcore meant anyone who plays video games very passtionately and devotes a great deal of their time to them. So do you mean that someone who is highly skilled and deeply knowledgeable about FIFA and Madden, is a fan of those games, and admires such features in them as the realistic graphics and sound is not a hardcore gamer compared to someone else who is all about Halo 2 and Counter-Strike Source? What is the requisite to be categorized as a 'hardcore' gamer, then?