[Squinky]

Feel free to call me a stuck-up, overly-conservative, socially-retarded idiot instead.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

I'm curious as to why "masturbation celibacy" is that crazy, or at the very least, why it's considered more crazy than abstinence from sexual activities with other people. No, I am not one of them bracelet wearers. But surely making fun of their rules, irrational as they may be, is actually against the notion that "why it is anyone elses business if someone wanks, its their own choice. Same with sex." No?

By wearing the bracelets, they're advertising the fact that they've elected not to indulge in "self-satisfaction". When they do that, they make it everyone else's business. To me, it comes off as an "I'm better than you are because I don't wank" sort of thing.
While there are certainly those who will take the "bracelet pledge" (for lack of a better term) utterly seriously, I have no doubt that there are also those who will feel pressured to take the pledge by their family or social group when they don't personally agree with it, and these same folks will most likely break the pledge yet continue to wear the bracelet.
I agree that "wanking" is, for the most part, THE most private of acts. But to publicly proclaim that one doesn't do it and to demonize those who refuse to take the "bracelet pledge" reminds me rather forcefully of "The Scarlet Letter".
Perhaps my reaction to this stems from a life spent living on the buckle of the "Bible Belt" in the US. I can not tell you the number of times I've seen ministers and officials of various churches decry from the pulpit the very same sins in which they gleefully indulged less than 24 hours prior.
I feel that everyone is entitled to follow their own beliefs, but I don't have much patience with people who publicly preach belief systems that they themselves don't follow in private.

[seebaruk]

I agree. Now I'm off for a quick tug.

[Jeysie]

I think the Sage-Man said it all pretty well for me...

It's not the idea of someone choosing to refrain from masturbating that bothers me. A person can choose to do with their body what they wish; I'm not going to say anything. (Though admittedly I've never understood the predilection of some religions for self-denial that doesn't give any practical benefit, but that's another topic.)

Rather, it is indeed the self-righteous, holier-than-thou attitude that the bracelet aspect gives off that bothers me... the implication that someone is lesser than you because they don't follow your beliefs.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[AFGNCAAP]

I find it a peculiar point of view. Unless said bracelets have something along the lines of "I'm not a filthy wanker like you!" in bright red letters written on them, I absolutely don't understand how you people can equate publically manifesting one's beliefs with condemning those who don't share them. Couldn't I attribute the same holier-than-thou-ness to just about any group of people, ranging from those who carry visible religious symbols (crucifix, turban,...) to precious jewellery weares ("I'm richer than you!") to scantily dressed attractive girls ("I have better body than you!")?

And hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. Hypocrisy can happen anywhere. Even if a thousand famous pacifists turned out to be serial murderers today, I wouldn't call pacifism in general a movement for "whackjobs" or even anything close.

[Jelena]

I saw an interesting documentary (a series) about a number of British men with different backgrounds who got the opportunity to spend time in a British monastery, living with the monks. They all had issues to deal with and the reason for living in the monastery was to see if they were helped by the religion and the discussions they had with their mentors.
One interesting discussion was about masturbation. The monk who got the question about how he dealt with his sexual needs was very humble. He admitted it was hard at times but said that the ideal situation was to 'let his soldier stand alone'
There were many other topics as well and I was amazed how humble and non-condemning these monks were.

And as a mom to teenage children, if their doors are closed I always knock and wait a while before going inside. The best is if I get a come in-answer.
It would be just as awkward to me if I was to interrupt something.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by LenaJ

And as a mom to teenage children, if their doors are closed I always knock and wait a while before going inside. The best is if I get a come in-answer.
It would be just as awkward to me if I was to interrupt something.

Thats very respectful of you.

[Jatsie]

This reminds me of a wonderful story I heard on some sex-related programme that was on Sky One two or three years ago.

A young man recalled how one afternoon he was lying naked on his bed, eyes closed, listening to music on his headphones, and busily attending to pleasuring himself.

Upon completition he opened his eyes and prepared to clean up his mess, when suddenly he noticed sitting there on his bedside table, was a steaming cup of tea where previously there had been none.

He realised that his mother must have brought the drink up to him, seen that he was otherwise occupied, and then left it on the table before departing again.

Talk about embarrassing! haha.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

Talk about embarrassing! haha.

I wonder what he and his mom said to each other later on? Most likely they behaved like nothing at all had occured. Any comment what so ever would have been really .
Mom: Eh...was it good? or I left the tea on your bedside since you were busy... or
Young man: Thanks for the tea. I didn't hear you coming in.

[Fairygdmther]

Everyone needs their private space - Mom should have knocked before entering!

[Sage]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

I find it a peculiar point of view. Unless said bracelets have something along the lines of "I'm not a filthy wanker like you!" in bright red letters written on them, I absolutely don't understand how you people can equate publically manifesting one's beliefs with condemning those who don't share them.

The bulk of the post that sparked this debate, with problematic text removed and pertinant text in bold:

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

Apparently somewhere in deepest America there is a certain group that take abstinence one step further, and wear a bracelet as a sign of their commitment not to masturbate.

If they break their vow they must remove their bracelet and then suffer the "shame" when their friends notice.

That sounds like condemning to me, although self-inflicted by any bracelet wearer who removes their bracelet.

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Couldn't I attribute the same holier-than-thou-ness to just about any group of people, ranging from those who carry visible religious symbols (crucifix, turban,...) to precious jewelry wearers ("I'm richer than you!") to scantily dressed attractive girls ("I have better body than you!")?

It could, but there's a fine line between positive behavior relating to yourself and negative behavior directed at others.

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

And hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. Hypocrisy can happen anywhere. Even if a thousand famous pacifists turned out to be serial murderers today, I wouldn't call pacifism in general a movement for "whackjobs" or even anything close.

Nor would I. The term "whack-job" was badly-chosen and insensitive.

[seebaruk]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

Everyone needs their private space - Mom should have knocked before entering!

She probably did, but if he was wearing headphones I doubt he would've heard it. But then, if you're gonna play the five knuckle shuffle while listening to music with your eyes closed in your parents house, you've probably wanked yourself stupid and deserve everything you get

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Sage

That sounds like condemning to me, although self-inflicted by any bracelet wearer who removes their bracelet.

Ah, but they're not condemning those who don't wear the bracelets to start off with. And yes, they are condeming masturbation as being against their beliefs, but they're not directly attacking you for not sharing those views.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by seebaruk

She probably did, but if he was wearing headphones I doubt he would've heard it. But then, if you're gonna play the five knuckle shuffle while listening to music with your eyes closed in your parents house, you've probably wanked yourself stupid and deserve everything you get

So true. Theres a degree of care people should take when spanking the monkey. Make sure your door is locked or your alone in the house, and yeah, listening to music while wanking? Never heard that one before.

[Jatsie]

Originally Posted by Sage

The bulk of the post that sparked this debate, with problematic text removed

I don't apreciate being censored.

The term "whack-job" was badly-chosen and insensitive.

I see it more as deliberate and apt.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

I don't appreciate being censored.

I was trying to separate the two issues of masturbation and religion. This is the "Masturbation" thread, after all.

Originally Posted by Jat316sob

I see it more as deliberate and apt.

And possibly inflammatory?

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Sage

And possibly inflammatory?

Only if you have a medical problem, surely?

I can't believe I made a joke in this thread ...

[seebaruk]

Hehe, good one Robsie. You're slowly becoming one of us.

One of us! One of us!

[Sage]

Robert's cracking wise in a sex-related thread (and it was a good one!), Seebs is quoting Todd Browning...has the world gone mad?

[Kingzjester]

What I hate the most about this thread is that I get an e-mail notification every time anyone posts in it.