06-06-2007, 10:24 PM | #21 |
Unreliable Narrator
|
I'm very impressed.
__________________
Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right". |
06-07-2007, 12:59 AM | #22 |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
I really appreciate the support guys. Saying such nice things about my humble efforts!
Five minutes ago I just received some news that may change everything. The first samples of music arrived from the main composer for the game. It's powerful stuff. I am blown away. You guys can't hear it yet (sorry! Spoilers and all that) but it's... wow... I've got it on loop as I type. It's really deep, powerful, eternal, layered, memorable stuff. The new music would fit a minimalist art style. Or put another way, anything that is less than perfectly polished would sound wrong next to this music. I'm thinking in particular of the "death of Eponine" animation that took me over a week to complete. It's frankly embarassing next to the sublime music that I'm listening to right now. I am strongly favoring the minimalist approach at this point. The new music is REALLY good. There's another thread on adventuregamers about innovation in adventure games. Brothers and sisters, if I can pull this one off (a big "if", and it will be a LOT of work) then you ain't seen nothin yet.
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
06-07-2007, 05:06 AM | #23 |
Banned User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 447
|
I absolutely love what was in the video! It is fresh, invigorating, and offers endless possibilities.
My take on the consistency issue is that people who want consistency, in order not to be jarred out of the flow of the game, want to be lulled, calmed, and mesmerised. Nothing wrong with that, but my impression is that you are looking to stimulate. I definitely feel that the multiple styles achieve the latter better. I really feel you should not try to compete with software houses who have a dozen graphic artists working round the clock on nothing but the graphics. Your totally unique strength involves variety, individuality, flexibility, and freedom. There is enormous appeal in never knowing what the next screen will hold, in terms of not only content but style as well. Maybe the single factor on which you should base the decision whether to keep the multiple graphic styles or go for a single one is: which will you be able to have more fun with? Given that you will be giving years of your life to this endeavour, please make sure you do not turn the project into a burden. Chances are that if you have fun with it, the kind of audience you wish to reach will also enjoy it. But bottom line, whatever you choose, I will be happy to pay good money to play Les miserables. Simo Sakari Aaltonen (simoadventurecompanion.com) www.adventurecompanion.com |
06-07-2007, 05:30 AM | #24 |
In an evening of July...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,215
|
So am I, and I'm not convinced that a minimalistic style can be any better than what you showed us. Great video (and thanks for the commentary), the variety of stuff blew me away. A pity we didn't get much about how all of this is to fit into the storyline (an idea for the next trailer maybe?).
Anyway, I favor your current style. But maybe samples/sketches of your new idea could convince me/us otherwise. Last edited by kuze; 06-07-2007 at 05:56 AM. |
06-07-2007, 11:47 AM | #25 |
Freeware Co-ordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South East England.
Posts: 7,309
|
Taking on your comment that people playing the game found the changes in style jarring (which seems to be the main concern) Is this something that could be made clear upfront in the setup/story for the game?
The reason I say this is that I suspect most people found it jarring because they are used to a consistent style and so will expect it unless told beforehand. If you knew that different worlds and looks were involved (if the very lack of consistency could be promoted as a feature of the game) then I suspect it would probably come across much better. I loved the stuff as well by the way. I wasn't sure about the boat when you approached it but when you said it was part of "kid's world" then it fit in (see, it really is less jarring when there's an explanation for it. ) Good accent as well. I think I almost recognised the town where you live. I have at least known towns very like it.
__________________
No Nonsense Nonsonnets #43 Cold Topic A thread most controversial, that’s what I want to start Full of impassioned arguments, of posting from the heart And for this stimulation all will be thankful to me On come on everybody it won’t work if you agree |
06-07-2007, 12:45 PM | #26 | |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Quote:
At present I've had to remove almost half the game world (the past/future/other nations and undersea parts) because I simply can't get them all added in time. But with simpler graphics I could have the whole thing ready in the first release of the game, and that's really getting me salivating. Finally, a polished and consistent but minimalist style might, just MIGHT get closer to the Holy Grail of story telling: Give the reader just enough hints and no more, so they create the most incredible story and graphics in their head as they read. That would be just sublime. Maybe it's an unrealistic hope, but you have to dream.
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
|
06-07-2007, 12:49 PM | #27 |
Unreliable Narrator
|
What would you think of minimalistic characters on the current backgrounds?
__________________
Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right". |
06-07-2007, 01:23 PM | #28 | |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Quote:
HOWEVER... even if I explain it, I think most people won't get it. First, people tend to form judgements very quickly. I will have lost half the potential users before they even get as far as the exolanation for the odd art. Second, the concept is fundamentally complicated (at least until you get used to it). I want the game to be accessible not just to sci-fi geeks, but to other people as well. If I do go down the minimalist route, that's the section I will miss the most. The kids' world has some really fun parts, and most of it is drawn by my own children when they were younger, so I'm quite attached to it. On the other hand, a sketchy style gives far more potential for using kids' drawings, just in a different way...
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
|
06-07-2007, 01:37 PM | #29 |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
It's an interesting idea. But it's the backgrounds that change most and have the most obvious jaggies. Also, a major advantage of uber-simple backgrounds is the potential for more creative backgrounds. Take the city streets in Paris for example. I don't think any feature on the video, but I have several thousand generic streets that are created from the same hundred houses. So all but a few of the streets look boring. Which is frustrating to me, bacause if you look at any paintings of nineteenth century the streets look amazing! I want to suggest streets like that. I can do it with very simple sketches, but I can't do it with any style that takes time to draw. And the sketches can easily draw on copyright images, while more detailed pictures can't. So many possibilities!
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
06-07-2007, 02:46 PM | #30 |
Freeware Co-ordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South East England.
Posts: 7,309
|
Not exactly minimalist but a different graphics style with minimal animation whilst still maintaining a level of detail.
Menulis
__________________
No Nonsense Nonsonnets #43 Cold Topic A thread most controversial, that’s what I want to start Full of impassioned arguments, of posting from the heart And for this stimulation all will be thankful to me On come on everybody it won’t work if you agree |
06-08-2007, 12:18 AM | #31 | |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Quote:
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
|
06-10-2007, 03:20 AM | #32 |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Here are three "minimalist" screenshots, so you can see what I'm talking about.
Most people haven't see the full size art from the existing game, but trust me, there's a BIG difference. I still haven't decided whether to switch styles, but I am sorely tempted, as the new style offers so many possibilities (as it's quicker to create).
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
06-10-2007, 05:46 AM | #33 |
Lazy Bee
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 7,518
|
I've been comparing the two different styles for a short while now and my first impression is: keep the old style. Imho it'll be a completely different game with the minimalistic style, at least for the eye. It's not that I don't like the new screenshots, on the contrary. They are very elegant and I really like the woman by the window. But it's such a huge difference from the original screenshots which I immediately were impressed with and liked.
The minimalistic screenshots definitely need some colour or it'll be hard on the eyes playing a game with a mostly white and not so much to look at -screen. (My opinion again of course.)
__________________
Temporary guest in your life |
06-10-2007, 06:55 AM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 229
|
What's holding you back from just throwing the minimalist style in the mix you already have? Wouldn't that be the ideal solution?
|
06-10-2007, 07:15 AM | #35 | |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Quote:
I'd also need a completely new set of sprites and new work patterns for the minimalist sections, and if I'm going to all that trouble then it's not a great leap to just make everything minimalist and be done with it. Having said that, if the new art gores down like a lead balloon then I'll have to try plan "C." One person suggested that I keep the existing art but shrink it down and design the game so all that stuff happens inside a window. Like maybe you take a book off the shelf, and each book opens ot become a window on another world, with its own distinctive art style. Shrinking the art into a window-within-the-game would make the quality look better. (But it would also make floors into a nightmare! Sludge doesn't like narrow floors, and many of mine are already very narrow indeed). So that's the fallback position. If it turns out that most people like the new style, then fear not, the existing animations and stuff won't be wasted. I'll probably create an archive of free Sludge resources so anyone can use them to make their own Sludge game. Or donate them all to Squinky. There's a couple of very nice animations that nobody's seen yet (ideal for a mind-blowing sci fi story), so it would be a shame to lose them completely.
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
|
06-10-2007, 07:20 AM | #36 |
Has a jaw of sweet teeth
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Insanity.
Posts: 458
|
Even though I think it would be foolish to throw away years of work, I kind of like the style of the recent screens too (I have a feeling they might look very cool animated), so I say that it's all up to you...
|
06-10-2007, 08:19 AM | #37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,595
|
Quote:
Great pics though. |
|
06-10-2007, 09:44 AM | #38 |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
That's a tricky problem. Adding a ton of color and precision takes a long time. The simpler it is, the more I can get away with! On the other hand, if I remove the color and bold lines from the buildings then it becomes hard to see what's happening. But I might experiment with giving the character outlines some kind of hint of color. A lot will depend on how it looks when animated.
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
06-10-2007, 11:31 AM | #39 |
Unreliable Narrator
|
I actually really like the minimalist style too. Very clean and elegant, and a lot more capable of conveying emotion. Are those actual screenshots from the SLUDGE engine?
__________________
Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right". |
06-10-2007, 12:29 PM | #40 |
I turn novels into games
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 307
|
Not yet, but they will look pretty much the same, although with slightly more detail. I'm working on some experimental sprites right now.
__________________
Enter The Story: Classic novels as games |
|