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Old 12-11-2006, 06:59 AM   #41
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I think that while the technology to create more effective games in terms of deep content and storytelling has improved, the likelihood of seeing them has rapidly diminished.

The problem is increased development costs. Gaming has always been a hit-oriented industry, but as time has moved on, the number of sales required to recoup costs has increased. So we end up with more genre titles and clones of prior successes, and far less experimentation in games.

I think, today, the best potential for a more conceptual and experimental game lies with freeware, like the new IF, or the freeware point and click adventures being made with - erm .. I forget what it's called. I want to say Graphic Adventure Creator, but that's certainly not it.

The diminishing choices, overall, have honestly been making me gradually lose interest in new games. I think the pivotal moment for me was being in a store and overhearing a shop assistant telling a customer "I think this one is the best of the three Vietnam games that came out this month."
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Bennett View Post
I think that while the technology to create more effective games in terms of deep content and storytelling has improved, the likelihood of seeing them has rapidly diminished.

The problem is increased development costs. Gaming has always been a hit-oriented industry, but as time has moved on, the number of sales required to recoup costs has increased. So we end up with more genre titles and clones of prior successes, and far less experimentation in games.
Technology has absolutely nothing to do with the issue. A provocative theme can be dealt with in a text adventure no less effectively than it can in a state-of-the-art blockbuster. And developers were no worse equipped to deal with those themes ten years ago than they are today. The question of whether added production values are worth the price is a fascinating (if done-to-death) debate, but has no reason to be in this thread.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by jacog View Post
I find it ironic that often games rated M are quite durn immature. Graphic nudity? Squarely aimed at immature teenage boys. Gore purely for shock value is the same.
So do you think that kind of 'mature' content exists in games mainly for salability and wow factor? Seems to point that way, as you rarely hear the media (industry and mainstream) talking about things like political philosophical dissonance (Deus Ex), psychological meta-states (Indigo Prophecy), or existential choices (Syberia) and their [culture, pragmatic] value in interactive entertainment today. Instead the primary focus by media and many gamers are the gratuitous sex and violence, the impressive technology, and the hardware necessary to run the games, and even the status of being among the first to own certain games and hardware.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:59 PM   #44
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So do you think that kind of 'mature' content exists in games mainly for salability and wow factor?
Pretty much. If we look hard enough we will find a lot of content out there that is mature in the real sense of the word, but it's the visceral that gets the big advertising budgets. The word 'gratuitous' comes to mind...

"Not called for by the circumstances; without reason,
cause, or proof; adopted or asserted without any good ground;"

It gets weird too... one of the later Prince of Persia games got an M rating for "graphic nudity" ... I was curious to find out what the context was, so went searching for reviews that mention it... I found two reviews of guys who explicitly went looking for the above mentioned nudity, but could not find any at all. What was that about?

Hey, put tits&ass TM, blood&gore TM etc. in games, but at least have it for some justifiable reason.

To me, mature themes are ones that make you think, and handle delicate subjects with some degree of sensitivity.

I mentioned this in another thread... but we had this concept for a game, which perhaps might count as mature content...

Ahem...
Our hero, Henry, is a cross dresser with a 6 nights a week evening stage show. He used to be a vice cop, but developed a heavy drug problem, and was struggling with a lot of internal issues to do with his cross dressing. Nervous breakdown etc... all history now. One fine evening one of his former colleagues in vice shows up to let him know that his estranged teenage son, who always had a problem with his father's lifestyle, had gone missing... in trouble with the mob, as well as with the cops... so, that's the game... Henry must track down his son. Thing is... to Henry, the drag is like a super-hero's costume... without it he is meek, but with it he is confident, and certainly not to be trifled with. The tone of the story would be rather dark and gritty and we'd go deep into Henry's mind to learn all about who he is.

The immature version of the above story would be very different indeed. It's all in the telling...

To paraphrase J Michael Strazynski... Consider the story - Boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl and pursues her love against all odds then dies for girl - Romeo & Juliet or King Kong?
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:44 PM   #45
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I would call Hustler magazine "mature," but it's not mature in the same way that "War and Peace" is. What exactly are we talking about here?
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:59 PM   #46
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the latter...
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:19 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Gordon Bennett View Post
The problem is increased development costs.
When you get games such as counter strike and others, home brewed games, making masses of money, there is an arguement available that games aren't neccessarily about big budgets and big publishing companies. It has been proven that just making a good game and knowing how to sell it independently is good enough.

At the end of the day, the game industry is like the music and film industry. For every one person who watches a Mike Lee film, there's 10,000 watching an Adam Sandler movie, for every one person who buys a Beck single, there's a 10,000 buying Justine Timberlake.

It's those who can address a balance of matureness and mainstream stupidity. Tarantino figured it out, as did Madonna. As I'm sure there is a great independent game developer with an excellent idea that incorporates the best of niche point n click with the best of mainstream tits and gore. Some adventure game developers already know this, but think that creating a n action minigame which sacrafices good gameplay is the answer.

The answer is out there somewhere.

Quote:
Things are just like that so far. Every one I believe would like to see a more mature game but do the studios really want to explore this opportunity?
Well, the DS Brain Training games, or even the Nintendo Wii offers a great possibility for mature games for the mature crowd. But making them is only half the battle. I saw a brain training advert at a bus stop with a middle aged black woman playing it. Not a masculine white male with no shirt on, or a geeky boy. I've even seen a 60 year old couple searching for a DS and Brain Training in a local GAME store.

Selling it is the other key. We see adverts for games in game magazines and websites and maybe FHM and Zoo magazine, but what about trying to advertise The Moment Of Silence in a niche Sci-fi magazine, Syberia in Rolling Stone? Animal Crossing in Heat/ Hello or other gossip magazine?

Or if the publisher can't afford pricey magazines, there are tones of internet sites.

I know Nintendogs has been heavily marketed for the older female audience. There was even a time when the Gameboy SP was the ultimate fashion accessory for modals! (BTW, I'm not a massive Nintendo zealot, honest!).

Last edited by Terramax; 12-11-2006 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:03 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by aries323
IIRC, the average age for the gamer is about 35 or so and the average gamer buyer is abouty 30-40 years. Half of them are women, as well! I do think, game companies could earn much more money if they targeted some of their games to the more adult (or mature) gaming audience i.e the 25+ crowd.
Very interesting market data… I must say I am a bit surprised. Is this US only?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens
So do you think that kind of 'mature' content exists in games mainly for salability and wow factor?
The wow factor is common practice and its not always bad. Some times nudity or violence stand as “hooks” just to motivate your interest to check something. It’s like someone screaming to get noticed when every other is whispering. I have no problem with people using the wow factor as long as there is real content underneath. For instance the movie “Irreversible” used the whole rape scene to death in order to raise the wow factor but personally I believe the movie is much more than Monica Bellucci beaten to death so in this case the wow factor was used correctly because the content under the initial wow was not cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terramax
Selling it is the other key. We see adverts for games in game magazines and websites and maybe FHM and Zoo magazine, but what about trying to advertise The Moment Of Silence in a niche Sci-fi magazine, Syberia in Rolling Stone? Animal Crossing in Heat/ Hello or other gossip magazine?
Yes crossing selling is something that doesn’t used much by the game industry and I can’t really understand why.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:45 AM   #49
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@ phankie

I don't know if it is US only, but I do know that many women in my country enjoy playing computergames, mostly sims or such games like that.
Some women also do enjoy playing roleplaying games as well as counterstrike etc.

The numbers I have seen, have I gotten from andrew bub,
the gamerdad, from http://www.gamerdad.com

It's has been a while since I have seen the figures, but I do thinkt that it mentioned that the nearlyf half the (adventure) gamers were women as well as about 33 percent or so was 25+ or what you could call adults. (I can't seem to find the link to this right now, sorry guys ).

Back to the topic (more or less ).

Im for one, would also like to se more games with mature (or adult) content. Unfortunately, most developers think that this means catering to the age group that I teach at the moment, 15-19 year old boys, whose only interest in life is [censored] & [censored] & yet more [censored] content. (hope you get the idea ).

This usually means that we get scantily clad women with huge breasts - or some sexual innuendo or some sexual whatever - just for the sake of it. Just so that these boys, I now teach, will buy the games. I, for one, is very
tired of this.

If the game devs./publishers are going to do this, then please give us a real story beneath the flashy surface & images, being used in the game. Something like a moving romace story or a story filled with horror & dead etc.

I, too, have nothing against, sex, nudity & violence, if & when it is implemented well. And by that I mean, wowen into the story, so it is
(an integral) part of the story, which in turn helps the story to get
along --- not just something the producers/publishers etc. stick into
their game(s) to enhance sales.
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Old 12-12-2006, 07:12 AM   #50
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I'm waiting for Forgotten Element, it has a girl with big breasts in it.
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