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Casual Playthrough—Phantasmat
The only person that thinks the proprietor buried his money underwater is the adventurer. I think the money is still in the seven-key vault. And it was the keys, not the money that the proprietor was trying to hide when the flood came.
Forget my previous theory. ^ This one makes the most sense…
Does anyone know if those character sheets (that someone mentioned are in the CE) have anything to say about this?
I think the girl drowned. Why else would they show the scene with the water pouring into the tower? Since the tower is high, the water would have drained out again relatively quickly, leaving her body there.
^ This.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Warning Again—Spoilers from this Point On in the Playthrough/Thread
Some of these images (and comments as well) will be spoilers. If you haven’t finished the game, go no further.
As per TimovieMan’s request, here’s an image of part of the character background found in the Bonus chapter—the text scrolls so the salient portion begins mid-sentence:
It sounds as though the Proprietor was trying to bury the actual cash, as well as the evidence of his crimes, somewhere in the town right before the flood. But if you go into the basement room in the hotel and confront him, you find that the cash and the evidence is still there.
I think this means that, in some sense, everything we see in the course of the game is an illusion. If you were to visit the actual hotel on your own—without being drawn into the reality of the three ghosts—you wouldn’t see these things in the basement. But in the ghostly reality, stuff is still there because the Proprietor can’t clear it out in his mind. At least, that’s one interpretation.
As for the Girl and the flood—she looks pretty wet here—this is taken from the full vision sequence when all is revealed about the Girl. Still, she isn’t dead yet. It’s possible that the water got no higher and that she starved to death in the tower.
The Bonus chapter has concept art that shows transformations that go on that I didn’t notice at the time. Every character becomes slightly more “ruined” after you first meet them.
For instance, here’s the Girl near the car wreck right at the beginning.
And here she is on the Overlook after you’ve spent some time in the hotel. Notice that her clothing is more torn and ragged. Her face is also slightly paler. Even her eye shadow changes.
It’s as though the effort of keeping their “fresh and alive” images begins to slip as time goes on, and as the player discovers more.
All the characters undergo this slight raggedy transformation, though I didn’t notice it at the time. Then, more spectacularly, there’s the ultimate transformation when they are confronted with their pasts at the end of the game.
I went back to replay the initial scenario, and this time I saw the girl as a shadowy presence in the forest as Izno pointed out. I also saw the Proprietor behind the door this time because, after Tim point it out, I looked for him there. I wish I had been quicker on the draw, though, because I could have sworn he appears first in the left door glass panel with his seaweed persona, and then changes to his “healthy” persona by the time he gets to the right door glass panel.
I like Becky’s theory about the illusional nature of the evidence, although the Proprietor could also have been planning on making several trips.
The details Becky has been pointing out such as changes in lighting and clothing are part of why I love this game so much. The developers paid attention to everything. This is another game, along with Agelica Weaver, where I wish I had bought the CE. The few games that I have where I did get the CE were a waste of money.
Oops! Sorry I missed Becky’s post before posting this. But there is the money, right where you saw it in the vision. This was taken immediately after opening the door with the seven keys.
Becky - The screenshot I posted shows the proprietor in the left pane in his full, vine-clad regalia.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
I’m starting to have some ambivalent feelings about CE’s. I hardly ever purchase them. For the most part I think they are a waste of money.
But they occasionally have merit. And as furgotten points out, purchasing the CE of this game or Angelica Weaver’s might have been worthwhile.
But only if you are playing the game all by yourself. If you are playing the game as a group the CE becomes a problem. Everybody should be playing the same version of the same game.
When logical conclusions are reached at the end of the SE. But those conclusions are, or may be, contradicted by bonus game material in the CE, something is wrong. In the case of this game, I wish we were all playing the SE, or we were all playing the CE. That way we could all be discussing the same ending.
Is the money in the 7-key vault or is it unfound in an underwater world? The answer apparently depends on which version you played.
If I lead another game, I think one of the rules will be that we all play the same version of the game. If several players wish to play a different version, i.e. the CE, that is their option. But a discussion of what occurs in the CE ought to take place in a different thread. And, if players of the SE want to join that thread, I think that’s just great. But at least the main discussion will take place without “outside knowledge.”
(I’ve had an ongoing discussion about this very topic in the regular community playthrough thread regarding the game Freddy Pharkus Frontier Pharmacist. There are two versions of the game available. One, the floppy disk version, contains everything. The CD version of the game contains less than half of the recorded dialog. I own the former, which is very hard to find at a reasonable price. I don’t want to play my version it the other person in the playthrough hasn’t had the benefit. How do you ask someone what they thought of the chorus line scene in the bar when they couldn’t hear any of the spot-on dialog that went with it?)
Enough sermonizing.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
I like comparing both versions, and since I usually buy the collector’s editions, mostly on sale, I would hate to be censored if I wanted to discuss the bonus material at some point in a playthrough.
In Phantasmat, the only new information was confirmation that the girl’s intended was a real schmuck, which we suspected anyway. I really don’t think it hurts anything to discuss the extra material.
“Rainy days should be spent at home with a cup of tea and a good book.” -Bill Watterson
When logical conclusions are reached at the end of the SE. But those conclusions are, or may be, contradicted by bonus game material in the CE, something is wrong. In the case of this game, I wish we were all playing the SE, or we were all playing the CE. That way we could all be discussing the same ending.
Is the money in the 7-key vault or is it unfound in an underwater world? The answer apparently depends on which version you played.
I just checked a youtube video and the exact words that the gangster uses in the SE version is: I remember now! I drowned trying to hide the money I stole!
You can check the scene yourself here
We can of course always discuss exactly what he means by that, and why (some of?) the money is shown in the vault. But there is nothing in the CE version, that contradicts anything that was shown or told in the SE version, and unlike Angelica Weaver it also doesn’t change anything or throws some plot twist at us. It only elaborates a bit on some of the elements and give us a few more details. The only thing in the CE version that slightly changed my own interpretation of the main game, is that we now learn that the groom was a con-man, whereas I originally though… eh how shall I put this… a bit better of him.
My point is that there is as I see it, absolutely no reason why we should ignore these extra bits. If someone plays the bonus chapters, or in my case quick watch a youtube video of it, then why not tell the rest about it and also discuss that part?
I admit that Angelica Weaver was a bit different, because the bonus chapter flipped everything upside down and changed the whole story, but even in those cases then I don’t really see why that couldn’t or shouldn’t be discussed.
... I don’t want to play my version it the other person in the playthrough hasn’t had the benefit. How do you ask someone what they thought of the chorus line scene in the bar when they couldn’t hear any of the spot-on dialog that went with it?)
But you can instead compare the two different versions, compare notes on what the actual differences are, and discuss which version you think is the best one. There was a similar thing with the The Pandora Directive CP, where the game has different branches with different scenes at each branch, and even some extra puzzles that were only there at the high difficulty. Instead of forcing everybody to make the same choices or play at the same difficulty, participants could chose this themselves, and some of the most lively discussions was about the differences between the branches and the choices we made.
My point is that this can also be an advantage, that adds to the experience of a CP instead of a problem.
Edit:
I’m starting to have some ambivalent feelings about CE’s. I hardly ever purchase them. For the most part I think they are a waste of money.
That I don’t disagree with, I would only buy the CE version myself if I found it on sale for no extra money.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I think this means that, in some sense, everything we see in the course of the game is an illusion. If you were to visit the actual hotel on your own—without being drawn into the reality of the three ghosts—you wouldn’t see these things in the basement. But in the ghostly reality, stuff is still there because the Proprietor can’t clear it out in his mind. At least, that’s one interpretation.
I kind of like this way at looking at it.
What we are experiencing is not necessarily how things strictly speaking actually was, but more how the three ghosts remember them. The room in the basement is pretty much as it was when he killed the hotel owner, except for a lot of decay, because it was this moment and not his own dead, that was the defining moment for the proprietor.
The Bonus chapter has concept art that shows transformations that go on that I didn’t notice at the time. Every character becomes slightly more “ruined” after you first meet them.
I also didn’t notice that myself, but it makes perfect sense, after all we see that the hotel and other things becomes more and more decayed, so why not also the ghosts themselves. Even if you don’t consciously notice these things it still adds to the whole atmosphere and feeling of the game.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I think that bringing different perspectives and experiences to a game is partly what a playthrough is for. People saw different things in the opening parts of Phantasmat—including the Proprietor behind the door and the Girl in the woods briefly, both before we meet them. I’m flirting with the idea of replaying a bit more to catch a glimpse of the Girl in the bathroom mirror because Tim saw her there and now I’m curious.
I’ve found that the Bonus game in a CE can add story depth, which I like to discuss. Sometimes CEs are worth the money and sometimes not, but it’s hard to tell in advance. Very good games, like the ones we’re nominating for these playthroughs, tend to have some of the better Bonus games, but not always. I agree that throwing a significant plot twist our way in the Bonus game does shake up the playthrough, but that’s not necessarily a negative thing. I like the discussions and disagreements/theories as to what’s going on.
Everyone comes from a different context anyway. Some have played lots of casual games, others not. Some may have followed the devs closely and read some interviews. Some may have played other games by the devs and recognize references to those games that they can comment on. I like when that perspective is added.
I found examples of the Socialite’s deterioration. This is harder to spot, I think.
In the bedroom at the beginning of the game.
In the cemetery, mid-game.
Hmm. Now that I see them side-by-side, maybe the difference isn’t so hard to spot.
Something else it took me about five attempts to spot—in the opening sequence, as the ghost world claims you, seaweed/vines wrap around your car right before you go off the road.
If you are playing the game as a group the CE becomes a problem. Everybody should be playing the same version of the same game.
Why? You can’t expect people to shell out more money (sometimes a lot more - as was the case here when I bought the game) for something that’s optional (and not that big of an addition - I watched a YouTube ‘Let’s Play’), and on the other hand, you can’t censor people who DO have the CE and want to talk about it…
At worst it leads to more discussion about the ending, which comes after we’ve all completed the game anyway, and which is a good thing.
None of what’s in the CE gets discussed while we’re still playing the game, so it’s irrelevant for most of the playthrough. And when it does become relevant, then frankly, I’m glad to learn of what happens in the CE if I only got the SE…
My point is that there is as I see it, absolutely no reason why we should ignore these extra bits. If someone plays the bonus chapters, or in my case quick watch a youtube video of it, then why not tell the rest about it and also discuss that part?
^ This.
My point is that this can also be an advantage, that adds to the experience of a CP instead of a problem.
^ And this.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
I never noticed the seaweed in the crash scene—good spotting. So it makes sense that the crash happens because of the three ghosts’ desire on at least a subconscious level for closure, although the girl seems to be the prime mover. Nice.
On a practical note, I can’t help but point out that the crash happened because we were stupid enough to put a large map in front of our face when we were driving a narrow, windy, wet road in the dark. Just sayin’...
I’ve been watching the intro over and over on youtube. Right before the maps suddenly appear, there’s a flash of blue “ghastly” light, and as soon as we touch the maps, more ghastly light, this time over the whole windshield. I suspect that the maps were a paranormal trap of some sort—touch them, and you are drawn into the alternate reality they are indicating.
It IS rather curious that we can drive a car without using arms or hands, don’t you think? Maybe this is what set us apart from other drivers on the road. In addition to that willingness to peer at maps and ignore where we’re going.
I am coming to agree with furgotten that all three characters were involved—due to the three handprints on the windshield.
Sorry my rant caused a shift in the space/time continuum.
It was simply an observation that I thought it best that we all play the same game. And if there was any worthwhile bonus material to be had we should all play it so we can discuss the game with equivalent information.
As to Iz’s comment re: FPFP, There is no way to discuss a scene that has volumes of dialog with a person that can’t hear a thing. It would be like trying to describe the color blue to a blind person. It simply wouldn’t work.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
It IS rather curious that we can drive a car without using arms or hands, don’t you think? Maybe this is what set us apart from other drivers on the road. In addition to that willingness to peer at maps and ignore where we’re going.
I’ve been through that scene a few times myself. While not my driving style, only the top two-thirds of the steering wheel is shown. So, maybe our protagonist is one of those idiot, palms-up drivers that steer from the bottom part of the steering wheel. I have no other explanation.
On the other hand, there are more than a few games that have the same problem. I don’t think you ever saw the hands on the steering wheel in the original 1000 Doors game, nor, for that matter in the opening sequence of the Ravenswood game. I would try to do screenshots, but neither game is currently loaded.
Maybe it’s like cartoon characters that are drawn with only three fingers and a thumb. It’s easier, and thus more cost efficient.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
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