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David Cage… Speaking truth to power or an example of Heavy Hypocrisy?
I wanted to get your thoughts on this. David Cage, the founder of Quantic Dream and the designer of Heavy Rain, recently gave a keynote address at the 2013 D.I.C.E. summit challenging the game industry to grow up.
Here’s the speech in its entirety here:
During the speech Cage describes an industry being anxious about growing up, one that prefers to stay in arrested development, and he outlines various ways video games could mature including making games more accessible, collaborating with Hollywood and focusing on the journey rather than the challenge.
And it makes me wonder… is he talking about adventure games as well or does he think adventure games set the benchmark for maturity in gaming?
Have adventure games even matured or are they and have they always been more mature than other genres? I’m not even sure what Cage means by mature - his points regarding accessibility, collaborating with Hollywood and making games for all ages sounds like a guide to broadening mass market appeal rather than creating mature content.
However, the point he makes about focusing on the journey rather than the challenge is important. Games like Journey, To the Moon and The Walking Dead are taking this approach and are making a significant impact on the people who play them while also causing resentment amongst people who want challenge. The final question from me would be - what does a grown up gaming industry look like to you?
By maturity, I think what he means is that gaming should go outside a narrow demographic (mostly male 15-25yrs) and engage with everybody. One part of that is more mature stories for sure, but also in terms of making different types of games to reach other audiences.
I suppose the movie industry is a suitable example—anyone from kids, teens, adults, male, female etc can find something to appeal to them.
Games like Journey, To the Moon and The Walking Dead are taking this approach and are making a significant impact on the people who play them while also causing resentment amongst people who want challenge. The final question from me would be - what does a grown up gaming industry look like to you?
I don’t think he means that every game has to appeal to everyone, just that there is something there for everyone. Until recently, if you were the kind of person who liked more emotional storytelling and disliked puzzles, then you were out of luck. Games like the ones you mentioned can reach out to all these different people who may not be “traditional gamers”.
Some interesting comments made by John Walker:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/02/07/david-cage-refuses-to-grow-up-says-man-in-his-chair/
www.hardydev.com - blogging about indie and underground adventures
Mr Walker, as usual is right.
He is asking an industry to grow up when the thing he prides himself most on (storytelling) in his games is so shallow and immature.
He pretends to be the David Fincher of games when he in actuality only just has the talent of Brett Ratner.
Kan Gao should have done that speech (the creator of To the Moon) as he actually knows how to write and tell a complex and adult story.
However, the point he makes about focusing on the journey rather than the challenge is important. Games like Journey, To the Moon and The Walking Dead are taking this approach and are making a significant impact on the people who play them while also causing resentment amongst people who want challenge. The final question from me would be - what does a grown up gaming industry look like to you?
Its been discussed on Neogaf. I am huge fan of David, his game Omikron
was one of my favorites, very ambitious, i also liked him for un orthodox approach
towards gaming untill recently he has found home in interactive Movies, which i hope
evolve in his next game Beyond. His apporach and ideas are product of his age
more than his undertanding of medium itself, he himself has admitted that story and
games should be personal and reflect the maker in some way.
I don’t have issues with it as long has its not the dominating genre. Mature industry is
one where there is no Black and White, no forced opinions by etiher Cage mentioned in this note or the other mentioned by Warren Spector in his keynote, he bashed violent games and Lollipop Chainsaw, mature industry should not be saturated with samey ideas and should not be forcing each other or rally some fixed approach, not even criticize others destuctively. It seems all these mature developers are just frustrated with each other approach.
Last of Us is step in right direction, survival horror , challenging conventions of mass shooter mainstream that made Deadspace3 a joke.
Similar theme like walking dead but cinematic mix of gameplay, AI and cutscenes and active cinematics unlike walk in the park with invisible walls of TWD.
One hit kills. The game abandons Uncharted approach and gives challenge of some kind, the one hit kill will also bring fear of death, one of few mainstream titles i am willing to play in Hard.
I also think he isn’t realy fair in how he portrays the state of the game industry. First of all, there is clearly a focus on high-budget games. If you do the same for movies, you won’t find much stimulating material either. That is because a higher budget means that you need to play safe and cater to as large a public as possible, which waters down your possibilities. Related to this, he uses the top 30 games to make his point. Yeah, sure, not much variation, but this list is hardly indicative of the variation found. Now take a look at the top 30 grossing films of all time and… there is not much “mature” material to be found. Similarly for books mostly.
I’m also not convinced it’s fair to talk about grandparents or parents and their experiences with games versus their experiences with books and films. The reason they value the latter two, while ignoring the first, is not solely a function of the medium’s maturity. It has probably more to do with the fact that they didn’t grow up with the medium; Old people don’t trust new things. However, in two generations time, most everybody will be familiar with games and will have played at least some.
And I can’t escape the feeling that he mainly focusses on console games while ignoring what has been happening on the pc.
There are many more points that I think lack any nuance or I disagree with. I don’t think I’ve ever really agreed with Cage.
I’m also not convinced it’s fair to talk about grandparents or parents and their experiences with games versus their experiences with books and films. The reason they value the latter two, while ignoring the first, is not solely a function of the medium’s maturity. It has probably more to do with the fact that they didn’t grow up with the medium; Old people don’t trust new things. However, in two generations time, most everybody will be familiar with games and will have played at least some.
That has to be one of the most patronising and asinine comments I’ve read in a long time - particularly the bit I’ve highlighted.
I happen to be in my early sixties and been playing computer games for possibly longer than you’ve been alive. Add in the fact that I’ve worked in IT for over 40 years and you dare to tell me that I don’t trust new things! Plus my mother was playing adventure games until near her death at 73 some 12 years ago. You are very sadly mistaken and I strongly suggest you rethink your bigotry against those older than yourself.
What I think Cage is inferring (could be wrong as I’m not him) is that back in the day - when adventure games pretty much ruled with sports sims chugging along behind - PC owners would be the better off financially and these people tended to be the more intelligent hence earning better salaries (we’ll ignore the inherited rich - fewer of them). It was when PCs became household standards courtesy of PC manaufacturers like Gateway, Time, Tiny and then Dell, cutting prices to a point that most families could afford them. Now we start to hit a different demographic and games like Doom, Wolfenstein et al found an audience and a larger audience than that for adventure games primarily because you had to think to play an adventure game not mindlessly shoot at everything in sight.
I accept my post is somewhat generalising where intellect is concerned. I have no doubt many here will enjoy FPSs, RPGs and similar. But the money is in the masses and those masses, by definition, will include those of lower intellect who cannot find their way through an AG. That isn’t to demean them at all. It just is. But stagnation is happening in big budget game design because of this. Maybe, just maybe, the Kickstarter revolution will allow this to change.
Life is what it is.
What I think Cage is inferring (could be wrong as I’m not him) is that back in the day - when adventure games pretty much ruled with sports sims chugging along behind - PC owners would be the better off financially and these people tended to be the more intelligent hence earning better salaries (we’ll ignore the inherited rich - fewer of them). It was when PCs became household standards courtesy of PC manaufacturers like Gateway, Time, Tiny and then Dell, cutting prices to a point that most families could afford them. Now we start to hit a different demographic and games like Doom, Wolfenstein et al found an audience and a larger audience than that for adventure games primarily because you had to think to play an adventure game not mindlessly shoot at everything in sight.
I accept my post is somewhat generalising where intellect is concerned. I have no doubt many here will enjoy FPSs, RPGs and similar. But the money is in the masses and those masses, by definition, will include those of lower intellect who cannot find their way through an AG. That isn’t to demean them at all. It just is. But stagnation is happening in big budget game design because of this. Maybe, just maybe, the Kickstarter revolution will allow this to change.
That has to be one of the most patronising and asinine comments I’ve read in a long time - particularly the bit I’ve highlighted.
Back on topic, I watched the video of Cage’s talk a few days ago, and he comes across as a complete douche—and not just because of the French accent. It always annoys me when people start pontificating about what “the industry” should or should not do. Especially when all they have to say is “the world would be so much better if you all did mature stuff like I do, instead of the immature crap you’ve been doing for so long” (whatever the words “mature” and “immature” are supposed to mean). It just comes across as smug—or jealous of other people’s success.
Cage should make the games he wants to make and stop caring about what other people are doing. If other people enjoy making and/or playing shooters, that doesn’t make them “wrong” or “inferior” or “bad for the industry”.
That has to be one of the most patronising and asinine comments I’ve read in a long time - particularly the bit I’ve highlighted.
In his defense: you sound like you’re part of the group that “grew up with it”. Most of your generation didn’t, and that’s the ones he was talking about.
It may have been an overly simplistic statement, but there really is some truth in it…
The same goes for your “AG and intelligence” statements. Overly generalized but with a basis of truth…
Cage should make the games he wants to make and stop caring about what other people are doing. If other people enjoy making and/or playing shooters, that doesn’t make them “wrong” or “inferior” or “bad for the industry”.
^ This.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Sorry to be so negative, but I just listened to the talk in full.
and honestly he is like an 11 year telling a 6 year old to be grow up.
Just because he is in an industry where 90% of the content is badly written, doesn’t mean his slightly LESS badly written games are all of a sudden a saving grace.
Rockstar, Valve and Naughty Dog are three AAA companies, that tell witty, intelligent stories with MUCH better writing than anything Cage has ever attempted.
Ah, yeah, my remark about older people wasn’t as nuanced as it might have been. I edited that part several times, and it appears to have come out wrong, but still. I absolutely don’t deny that there aren’t any older people playing games or that all people above a certain age lose all interest in anything new, but the tendency is there that people are less attracted to and more wary of stuff they didn’t grow up with and stick more to what they already know.
But now that I’ve said this I’m starting to wonder whether this is really true (in a general way, so taking into account that there are always exceptions to the rule 
). There might also be other barriers that make it easier for people that grew up with games to still game as they become older but prevent people that didn’t from trying it out. The portrayal of the medium by the media, for example, or the idea that games are for children.
Mr Walker, as usual is right.
He is asking an industry to grow up when the thing he prides himself most on (storytelling) in his games is so shallow and immature.
He pretends to be the David Fincher of games when he in actuality only just has the talent of Brett Ratner.
Kan Gao should have done that speech (the creator of To the Moon) as he actually knows how to write and tell a complex and adult story.
Ouch. Nobody deserves to be compared to Brett Ratner.
I find Cage a fascinating figure. I get the gist of what he’s saying, but moreso I appreciate that he brings attention to these various discussion points.
I thought Cages speach was a load of BS, or at least something that would have been more relevant 10 or 15 years ago.
He is very focused on the console market and on shooters, but there is already (and has always been) many other kind of games or digital entertainment. The comments made by John Walker at Rock Paper Shotgun explains my view better than i can myself.
Also if you watch his speach, you get the impression that the average age of gamers is something like 15 years, but the avarage age is much higher then that, and is still increasing, and there are also many ‘old’ people that play games. And as Primate Ryan also said, the main reason why not more ‘old’ perople play games, is probadly that they didn’t grow up with the medium.
The one interesting thing that he did say, was about the challenges in games, where games traditionally is about beating the computer or beating an other player in PvP, but more mature players doesn’t care much about that. And he does have a point here.
I however don’t think that you can remove all challenges from games, an important part of gaming is about overcoming the challenges that you are faced with, and these Heuraka moments where you finally figure out how to solve a puzzle, or kill a boss or for that matter win in solitare. I dont think a game can be a game without challenges, but we might see some other forms of digital entertaiment that aren’t games at all, but still have some interactivity.
Whenever discussions like this arises, i think about an old sc-fi novel i once read. In the book there where tv soaps, where the viewers would play one of the roles in the soap, they would have their lines sent in advance, and the other characters would pause look at the viewer and wait for her to read her lines. It was all a bit pathetic, but it did made the viewer fell like she was a part in the soap, instead of just pasively watching a show.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
And I can’t escape the feeling that he mainly focusses on console games while ignoring what has been happening on the pc.
What bothers me even more is he never mentions adventure games though he was a regular guest here at AdventureGamers’ forums before the release of Fahrenheit. He knows there are games out there with storytelling, non-violent interactions, intellectual challenges and complex characters, but he somehow chooses to ignore their existence. Doesn’t even mention them per courtesy as an exception to the rule.
www.hardydev.com - blogging about indie and underground adventures
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