Adventure Gamers - Forums

I was just thinking about this… I have criticized TSL and POS very harshly in the past. Sometimes, after watching videos of the team or seeing them pop up in the same thread, I feel very guilty for being so harsh. Makes my heart sink. Sometimes I feel like getting one’s point across and heard by people and making an impact on such forums requires a very strident tone, but it is never my wish to discourage anyone. On a personal level, I really admire anyone for putting out their creative work like this to be judged by often unforgiving players and then facing them in the forums. As someone with a shared passion for these games, I also wish all these adventure game developers great success.

That said, I think Moebius is showing tremendous improvement over the team’s previous releases. Is definitely one I’m looking forward to. And I can only imagine how much better they’ll be in the future.

Quest1 - 04 April 2013 06:17 AM

I was just thinking about this… I have criticized TSL and POS very harshly in the past. Sometimes, after watching videos of the team or seeing them pop up in the same thread, I feel very guilty for being so harsh. Makes my heart sink. Sometimes I feel like getting one’s point across and heard by people and making an impact on such forums requires a very strident tone, but it is never my wish to discourage anyone. On a personal level, I really admire anyone for putting out their creative work like this to be judged by often unforgiving players and then facing them in the forums. As someone with a shared passion for these games, I also wish all these adventure game developers great success.

That said, I think Moebius is showing tremendous improvement over the team’s previous releases. Is definitely one I’m looking forward to. And I can only imagine how much better they’ll be in the future.

Quite a turnaround from previously, Quest1, but credit to you for being able to do so. I too hope they’ll continue to improve - sounds like TSL had major flaws, Cognition is good but definite weakness with story & dialogue. If they continue on the upward curve, things could look very positive for the future for them…and us

J.H - 03 April 2013 06:25 PM

It’s like a Ken doll had a run in with the Illuminati.

Generic model like in Singles, Sims or some NPC from any game out there, the writing
is on the wall and i don’t know how one can inject sense and talent through feedback.
We are talking about intangible elements here and the aesthetic sense, animations,
design are all generic. Maybe writing will help it, the only constructive thing
i can point out is to redo animations and stylize the art , to match atleast like that of Graymatter.

Sam in Graymatter, April , Zoe etc. all have some fashion sense and style statement, however if you put rector among these,

he would not stand out

EDIT: Found Rector lookalike, on left in green check shirt with hat

This really fits with the discussion of 2D vs. 3D graphics going on in another thread.  If the game PLAYS like a 2D game—i.e. with fixed camera angles and point and click gameplay, there is no reason beyond the cheaper cost (which makes sense here, given the budget) to do characters in 3D.  In my opinion, it’s indefensible as an aesthetic choice, because there is almost no situation where high quality 2D animation wouldn’t look better, when interacting with 2D backgrounds.  But it’s a lot cheaper to animate 3D characters, which only have to be modeled and then can be moved and manipulated in a variety of ways during the animation process, instead of having to hand-paint individual frame-by-frame animations.

So it’s a matter of cost, really.  Unfortunately though, from an aesthetic standpoint, it sticks out like a sore thumb and really starts to feel like a blemish on an otherwise good product. But again—the question is, where do you draw the line between quality and cost-effectiveness?

TimovieMan - 04 April 2013 12:38 PM

Lambonius - 04 April 2013 12:15 PM

So it’s a matter of cost, really.  Unfortunately though, from an aesthetic standpoint, it sticks out like a sore thumb and really starts to feel like a blemish on an otherwise good product.

That’s why cel-shading can turn the cheaper 3D option into something that IS aesthetically pleasing. If done well, of course…

I think people throw the term “cell-shading” out there without really knowing what it means.  I’m not saying you are doing that, mind you.  Just that I see a lot of people call certain types of 3D design “cell-shaded” when it’s actually nothing of the sort.  Moebius doesn’t look cell shaded to me.  Or maybe I’m misunderstanding what the term refers to.  When I hear that term, I think of the aesthetic of the characters in a game like Wind-Waker.

It doesn’t have to be 3D does it? The Runaway games were cel-shaded. At least according to this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cel-shaded_video_games

Ironically Runaway is the prettiest cel-shaded game I can think of, even though I think it’s dog-ugly at times. I don’t like the style at all.

Huh. I must not be up to date with my dimensions. I don’t see how it looks much different from Broken Sword 1, but yeah, okay.

Lambonius - 04 April 2013 12:15 PM

This really fits with the discussion of 2D vs. 3D graphics going on in another thread.  If the game PLAYS like a 2D game—i.e. with fixed camera angles and point and click gameplay, there is no reason beyond the cheaper cost (which makes sense here, given the budget) to do characters in 3D.

I think you’re underestimating the importance of dynamic cameras. Even if the camera angles are fixed during navigation (meaning the player can’t manipulate the camera angle while walking around and exploring), having the ability to show a scene from different angles, and to use camera cuts and close-ups, is invaluable for cutscenes and dialogue sequences. Dialogues that take place between two characters who are just standing there talking back and forth at each other can be incredibly boring. And Jane’s games have a lot of dialogue, so the ability to present dialogues in a more cinematic way is an important consideration. (That was one of my complaints about Gray Matter, actually.)

fov - 04 April 2013 04:10 PM

Lambonius - 04 April 2013 12:15 PM

This really fits with the discussion of 2D vs. 3D graphics going on in another thread.  If the game PLAYS like a 2D game—i.e. with fixed camera angles and point and click gameplay, there is no reason beyond the cheaper cost (which makes sense here, given the budget) to do characters in 3D.

I think you’re underestimating the importance of dynamic cameras. Even if the camera angles are fixed during navigation (meaning the player can’t manipulate the camera angle while walking around and exploring), having the ability to show a scene from different angles, and to use camera cuts and close-ups, is invaluable for cutscenes and dialogue sequences. Dialogues that take place between two characters who are just standing there talking back and forth at each other can be incredibly boring. And Jane’s games have a lot of dialogue, so the ability to present dialogues in a more cinematic way is an important consideration. (That was one of my complaints about Gray Matter, actually.)

Nah, you’re right.  With games like The Walking Dead that are in full 3D environments, the cinematic dynamic camera is a boon.  I was thinking more about 3D characters against 2D backgrounds.

fov - 04 April 2013 04:10 PM

Dialogues that take place between two characters who are just standing there talking back and forth at each other can be incredibly boring.

Can be, yes, but doesn’t that depend on the dialogue? Remember how the Lucasarts guys and Jensen used to give us some intriguing dialogues which were just a few pixels talking at each other? I’d rather developers focus on doing that than giving us 360-degree rotating cameras seeing every pixel of the characters’ heads and inside their vocal cords while they’re talking.

I’m playing the alpha demo right now and am really enjoying this game.  I too noticed that the jacket didn’t seem to fit right and the teeth looked a little funny, but, who cares?  It is the story and puzzles that will keep me playing. I rather like his accent and voice.  The hardest thing for me was to figure out how to use the inventory.  I wish that would be a little easier to figure out.  But, great game, so far!