Adventure Gamers - Forums

@Chrissie, agreed in that I would also rather new Broken Sword games. I know BS6 is on the way, but I did not enjoy the Director’s Cut of BS1 as much as the original. Some of the new scenes I did moderately enjoy, but many others felt disconnected and like forced content. Even though it felt like they were trying to add depth to Nico, I actually felt like it did the opposite! Everything she was involved in felt so sparse.

@Charophycean, I am not well-versed enough in the market of the BS games to know whether 9/11 impacted much regarding sales. Regarding Cecil’s perspectives on stereotypes, he has evidently made several statements about this. In a mid-2000’s piece, he had this to say:

So, how does Cecil achieve this? How do his characters manage to matter? It comes down to a lot of thought and preparation. “There’s a set of three areas that have to be established,” Cecil explains. “First of all, you’ve got to believe in your characters. Second, you’ve got to empathize with them. And third, you’ve got to share their motivations. And once you’ve got all that, then hopefully you’ll start to love your characters. And only at that point can you be effective.”

Certainly suggesting nothing disparaging about the game itself, Cecil mentions Metal Gear Solid’s characters as a comparison. “They’re stereotypes. And because they created stereotypes, they’ve written them stereotypical dialogue. So you cannot care about them.” He’s right. I don’t believe in them, I don’t empathize with them, and I don’t share their motivations, and hence I don’t love them.

More recently, he said:

“We had a very progressive writer [for the original], he was great. So actually, there are so few things that feel out of sync in 2023,” Cecil says, but he does tell me of one character in Broken Sword that he was worried about, a Syrian character who felt too stereotypical, so minor changes were made to address that.

Even so, you are correct, we cannot know his mind and his motivations. Again, I am not saying all change is good. But I am also inclined to defer to creators and artists about how their vision should (or shouldn’t) change. Doesn’t mean we have to like it, naturally - in which case we won’t buy it. Now publishers changing things without creators’ sign off is different…

Sources:
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/confessions-of-a-crybaby-and-his-interview-with-charles-cecil

https://www.thegamer.com/broken-sword-reforged-true-to-canon-parzivals-stone-braver-gamescom-interview/

I agree with iron, if the original is still there, then its ok with me.

I feel that way about all property as long as the original still exist I don’t care if they remake movies make sequels/prequels, because I can still enjoy the original.

you know one of the things I find strange just from a monetary standpoint is the fact they’re not releasing it on PS4 and the old Xbox. The install base for those machines are still huge, seems like they’re leaving quite a few dollars on the table for no reason

Here is a very recent interview. Not thrilled with some stuff he is saying.

There’s now also a “play into” with Cecil of the german version of the game, gives a good impression of the game.

Jdawg445 - 04 March 2024 10:07 PM

Here is a very recent interview. Not thrilled with some stuff he is saying.

Such as? It all sounds good to my ears.

St_Eddie - 03 April 2024 08:10 PM

Jdawg445 - 04 March 2024 10:07 PM

Here is a very recent interview. Not thrilled with some stuff he is saying.

Such as? It all sounds good to my ears.

The whole casual aspects of a story mode, using focus groups to try and attract a “modern” audience.

Sure, but it’s an entirely optional mode, so I really don’t see the issue.  There’s nowt wrong with introducing more people into the adventure game genre fold. Now, if Revolution makes Broken Sword 6 casual only, then I’ll have a problem!

St_Eddie - 03 April 2024 09:24 PM

Sure, but it’s an entirely optional mode, so I really don’t see the issue.  There’s nowt wrong with introducing more people into the adventure game genre fold. Now, if Revolution makes Broken Sword 6 casual only, then I’ll have a problem!

The path to falling off a cliff is one small step at a time, slippery slope and all. Im more afraid By broken sword 7 there will really be no difference in the two modes much like the new monkey island game. I also think the whole premise is flawed, i dont think traditional adventure games have a huge untapped young market. Will new fans be made, sure. Will it be enough to move the needle in any meaningful way, i doubt it. This Kickstarter I think proves it, I doubt there was many teenagers buying the $150 to $200 Collector’s Edition, for this game, it’s the old fans. 

But who knows, just my thoughts.

I pretty much agree with everything that you’ve said.  I do think that Charles Cecil has a valid point when he focus tested the game with people unfamiliar with adventure games though.  Revolution may as well include a causal mode for such people playing on their iPhones/iPads, though I agree that the untapped potential customer base is very small.  I really do not have a problem with adventure games being more inclusive via alternative play modes, just as long as the core experience itself isn’t watered down.

I also absolutely agree that it’s a slippery slope and that I would hate to see the Broken Sword series go down the route of Return to Monkey Island, with its insultingly easy “Hard” mode.  You would have thought that developers would have learned by now that the adventure game genre is a niche one and that chasing after the mainstream crowd is a folly.  They’ll never be able to attract the people who play Call of Duty or FIFA year in, year out.

St_Eddie - 04 April 2024 11:24 AM

I pretty much agree with everything that you’ve said.  I do think that Charles Cecil has a valid point when he focus tested the game with people unfamiliar with adventure games though.  Revolution may as well include a causal mode for such people playing on their iPhones/iPads, though I agree that the untapped potential customer base is very small.  I really do not have a problem with adventure games being more inclusive via alternative play modes, just as long as the core experience itself isn’t watered down.

I also absolutely agree that it’s a slippery slope and that I would hate to see the Broken Sword series go down the route of Return to Monkey Island, with its insultingly easy “Hard” mode.  You would have thought that developers would have learned by now that the adventure game genre is a niche one and that chasing after the mainstream crowd is a folly.  They’ll never be able to attract the people who play Call of Duty or FIFA year in, year out.

exactly and that’s my fear, if charles sees a marginal increase in sales, he’ll glean the wrong reason because of it. Like oh they like the new casual mode let’s not even bother with hard puzzles because once again there is the internet anyways.

Also I agree with you there’s no problem with trying to make a game more inclusive, I just don’t think focus groups is the right way to do it, because those players are paid to play the game. It doesn’t mean that if they had a $40 point of purchase, that they would pay for it themselves, if not being beta testers for the game. Because $40 is usually the price Revolution likes to go with, which I don’t think is terrible for what that company gives you, but a casual fan who might give the genre a try, I think would be turned off at that price point.

A lot of this is just conjecture on my part, but it just seems like Charles is very excited about the idea that he thinks the reforged edition of Broken sword is going to bring in a whole bunch of new fans to the genre. Which is crazy to me because we just saw an arguably bigger IP like return of Monkey Island come to Market and while I think it’s sold pretty well, it didn’t re-energize the genre or bring in a whole bunch of new people to The Adventure Game Fan base. So why would broken sword be any different?? I could easily be wrong, but I think all signs point to reforged being in the same same sales range as all the other broken sword games.  Which there is nothing wrong with that as long as they keep the budget low, selling 500,000 to maybe to a million copies is an achievement, but if they think they’re going to capture 13 year old kids who play fortnite because of a casual mode, I don’t know the logic behind that train of thought.

I agree he is very excited to implement a story mode in reforged, and i get that bc the base game is the same as it was decades ago, but when BS6 comes around and he gives interviews, i hope we hear a lot about clever puzzle designs and not just more ways to improve the casual mode.