Adventure Gamers - Forums

Gabe - 26 October 2014 08:18 AM

tomimt - 26 October 2014 04:49 AM

It is pretty impossible to make a list of best anything that would please everybody. Tastes vary so much, that the even a committee made, well thought of list will have stuff in it that people won’t agree with. There’s always a favourite movie, song or a game that won’t get mentioned.
The best possible scenario always is, that you make a list that makes people say that those are good choices.

I think it’s quite possible actually check here how its done: All-Time Best Adventures

I’m always quite in disagreement with those lists that are generated which supposedly gather the “best games”, I know there are games that some may like more than others, and someone will say that it is a matter of taste in the end, but for example how a game like Darkseed is not even included in that list of 100 adventure games? How is it possible that this is not included there? Even if you hate the game you can not deny the importance it had and has had.

Zifnab - 25 October 2014 10:25 PM

Am I supposed to know who this Richard Cobbett guy is? (yes I know he’s the one who wrote the article). All of you are talking like he is the guy who lives down the street, and care a lot about his taste.

Heh. Until a couple of weeks ago, I had no idea who this guy was. And now he seems to get referenced in just about any recent thread here.
Makes you wonder if some people here think he’s God or something (or the Devil, if you read some of the comments on his writing). His reviews aren’t gospel, they’re just his subjective opinion… like all reviews are their writer’s subjective opinion...

crabapple - 26 October 2014 12:48 PM

Unlike the AG list, it is only valid to Cobbett.

And that’s exactly why this entire discussion here is bonkers!

Lambonius - 26 October 2014 01:01 PM

I agree with you, but to be fair, it’s not like the AG list is any less subjective.  It’s just a small group of people that put it together instead of one person.  It’s certainly a more inclusive list in terms of adventure types and subgenres, but it still has some bizarre choices and rankings on it, in my opinion.

Because you’re an individual, with individual tastes. The only list you are going to agree 100% with, will be your own.

These discussions are ultimately pointless…

tomimt - 26 October 2014 12:16 PM

But it is HIS list. It doesn’t have to include any games he doesn’t want it to include and that doesn’t make it any more or less valid than the top 100 list of Adventuregamers.

you don’t need to answer me, and of course it your choice but: would you have agreed (as you agree on Richard list) if it was me who made it and included 12-15 ags of sierra into it out of the 25, would have also said ITS HIS LIST and moved on, or would have recalled logic and legitimately debated this/mine ?

It’s entirely your business what you put in your list Advie. I’m not gonna argue with your personal preferences.

A.A - 26 October 2014 04:29 PM

That’s what’s pointless.

But I’m stubborn.

Advie - 26 October 2014 04:39 PM

would you have agreed (as you agree on Richard list) if it was me who made it and included 12-15 ags of sierra into it out of the 25, would have also said ITS HIS LIST and moved on, or would have recalled logic and legitimately debated this/mine ?

Yeah, as long as the games on there are somewhat defendable, I think most people here would probably go “the list is a bit heavy on Sierra, but otherwise it’s fine”. Remember: de gustibus non est disputandum.

I’m surprised no one made “Advie’s Top 25” thread yet. Well, at least, I’m surprised Advie himself had not made it yet.

diego - 26 October 2014 05:13 PM

I’m surprised no one made “Advie’s Top 25” thread yet. Well, at least, I’m surprised Advie himself had not made it yet.

Well, if we combine these two posts, we have a top 15, so that’s a start.

Hi Jack, I read your name on the main forums main page as the last poster, I was sure that the thread is closed but then I found it still active .

But I do find it silly that a major magazine like PC Gamer would have a single person’s opinion represent its definitive list.

I agree with you, I ‘think’ its a quite serious matter and should be handled carefully, simply when someone summarize all adventure games that ever made into a list and call the ‘best’ should deeply consider how strong this word is, ‘best’ means that is better than anything else that is not mentioned, I will try to sort some ideas (not all) of things oughta be considered while doing so (and has nothing to do exactly with the list issued here, it is much of general speaking):

I will use a lot of exampling to help me with my poor English to explain some points, and all this is just an opinion and happy to hear any disagreement, easily

1- Credibility, when some site/venue present a list through one person, it comes to mind that this person is more reliable than anyone else there to do such a task, and therefore all the others at that venue are tied to it, so it means that its not easy they can get themselves unattached of it one day, not even when he/she leaves it (the venue)

2- Neutral : if a Myst hater makes a list then his influence should (MUST) put aside, this not a sort of a KG1 children fight to prove him/ser-self right:D, so if necessarily i.e Ken Williams ‘has’ to make a list, he might think of excluding as much of sierra’s as he can, because (obvious) reading his name would tell otherwise, and he is smart and reliable enough to not to show personal effectiveness.

3 Being up-to-date : and that doesn’t mean new or semi new at all, i think any list now should keep at its rules; the games being chosen must be of those never-getting-old ones, even if the list has to exclude great titles 15-years ago could had have been the best of the best easily ;because they should serve new comers as old timers, choosing an old text adventure that a new comer couldn’t dig, could be a problem; problem that he can find other 500 adventures more enjoyable than it, i.e the IMDB top movies list are for everyone; movies freak and by-passers, and its a shame if we to find(and it is not) a movie at the listbut someone think its terrible .

4 Courage : Seeing Shawshank Redemption as the best number one movie ever, must have needed a lot of courage, maybe it might sound hard to tell a young kid that this movie it better than Lord of the Rings or Starwars, but ‘it is’, so putting Papers please, or similar ags need a lot of that and obvious thats it (courage needed)

5 Experience : how would it sound if the list maker haven’t used Syberia i.e because he never tried it, the maker of any list should be the most ultimate one experienced at ags (at one venue or as a part of a team at least) , so the number of ags played does matter.

6 Harmony : This might sound like much of previous points mentioned mentioned, but to confirm it; choosing two of Myst series into one list, for example using Myst 5 before any other (of series), which everyone knows its the most bad, simply could be a disaster .

Advie - 27 October 2014 04:46 PM

2- Neutral : if a Myst hater makes a list then his influence should (MUST) put aside, this not a sort of a KG1 children fight to prove him/ser-self right:D, so if necessarily i.e Ken Williams ‘has’ to make a list, he might think of excluding as much of sierra’s as he can, because (obvious) reading his name would tell otherwise, and he is smart and reliable enough to not to show personal effectiveness.

Sorry Advie but I totally disagree with this. Were I to compile a top 25 list of AGs then you’d hate me simply because there wouldn’t be a single Myst game in there nor would there be any Sierra games (maybe Phantasmagoria 2 but unlikely) simply because I detest them and they wouldn’t come under any consideration whatsoever simply because I think they’re garbage. My view and I don’t understand how anybody can like them. But! The point, as has been put forward several times, is simply personal taste and nothing else. It’s not about being right or wrong or trying to prove a point about anything it’s simply a question of personal taste.

Advie - 27 October 2014 04:46 PM

4 Courage : Seeing Shawshank Redemption as the best number one best movie ever, must have needed a lot of courage, maybe it might sound hard to tell a young kid that this movie it better than Lord of the Rings or Starwars, but ‘it is’, so putting Papers please, or similar ags need a lot of that and obvious that its (courage needed)

I disagree entirely. Nobody needs courage to post a personal list (not even if it’s a controversial list).
And IMDb definitely doesn’t need any courage, since their top 250 is entirely calculated by a mathematical formula based on the votes of the users. A mathematical formula that can be found on the site, btw.
Also, if you think that Shawshank is a better movie than LotR or Star Wars, then why would that be hard to tell a young kid? But Shawshank is not better just because it tops the IMDb top 250. That list is not an undisputed list of real quality. The list just shows what films are the most generally well-liked, not which ones are the actual “best” ones, because that’s a subjective matter that will be different for every individual person.

The 250 list in IMDb is not perfect. It is, despite all the mathematics behind it, yet another popularity contest. Sure, there are movies on the list that got endurance, but at the same time the list changes quite regularily depending on what happens to be latest flavour of the month. I for one don’t think it has 250 best movies around just like the bottom 100 doesn’t necessaruly have 100 worst movies around. There’s a lot worse, or better stuff out there, but not that many people have necesasrily seen them.

But at the same time both of those list do have movies in them that are generally either watchable or utter dreck.  It’s just the question of anyones personal taste if the movie is good enough to be said to be among the best or worst.