Mystery Game X - Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, 20th Anniversary Edition - page 82 Forum

17 October 2014 04:40 AM #1216

Lambonius Sr. Adventurer

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cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 04:37 AM

Seriously though, it is a problem that can’t be easily resolved. We wish we had more money to make these games better, there’s a demand for high caliber games that could never be there with these budgets. Its the chicken and the egg problem. Yes, there could have been a way to make a small game out of Moebius or a different design, but people have expectations of length, story and complexity from a Jane Jensen game. Which is why nobody really played her games from the 2000 decade.

So… I guess that’s it. There’s no solution.

Nonsense! I’m sure if we all bitch about it some more, amazing triple-A adventure games will fall from the sky!

17 October 2014 04:45 AM #1217

subbi Adventurer

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Back to some positive remarks:

I’m into the game only for about 4 hours and I’m enjoying it sofar. Yes, some of the design choices puzzle me, but the general look of it, including the stylized cut-scene’s that I feared might be a step back, is in fact quite good and is worthy of the source material.

The music is excellent as always and the voice overs are pretty ok. I’m not sold on the new voice of Gabriel Knight, but by the same argument, also Tim Curry was also over the top.

That you guys managed to make such a game on a small budget is quite a feat, honestly.

We’ll all have our opinions and obviously there are elements that work better in the original….but some others work simply better in this new edition.
I, for one, like the more structured approach in what goals you need to complete in a certain day and close of locations that are not relevant (yet). The original was much more unclear on what you were supposed to be doing on day 1 and what locations were relevant or not.

At least you managed to get me at a point where I can’t even decided what my preferred edition is, and that is also pretty good

Also, I’m very happy that the design decision of doing close-ups in 3D, such as in Moebius, was not further explored here. And that is really a relief.

It is fair critiscm to expect a developer to understand it’s limitations. Which means, that if you don’t have the budget, infrastructure or even artistic talent to do high quality 3D models, then don’t get the camera too close to the 3D models.

So it’s good to see that there were some lessons learned from Moebius.

17 October 2014 04:45 AM #1218

Zifnab Sr. Adventurer

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More positivity: I can’t understand why Moebius wasn’t a hit either. I liked it and I didn’t care about the glitches or technical deficiencies. You would expect those criticisms from Call of Duty fans, not adventurers. It was a good game and looked superb.

17 October 2014 04:52 AM #1219

subbi Adventurer

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Zifnab - 17 October 2014 04:45 AM
More positivity: I can’t understand why Moebius wasn’t a hit either. I liked it and I didn’t care about the glitches or technical deficiencies. You would expect those criticisms from Call of Duty fans, not adventurers. It was a good game and looked superb.

Why can’t Adventure gamers expect visually attractive games?
There are plenty of visually attractive Adventure games, but again, if the developer is on a tight budget, then don’t try something that requires a AAA budget to pull off.

17 October 2014 05:03 AM #1220

cesarbittar Member

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Thanks for the comments, Subbi.

You know, it’s funny about the way to handle conversations. I agree GK looks much better graphically regarding that, but I was having a conversation with Jane recently… We were talking how this way of doing convos have been much more well received than the way we did it in Moebius. Which is great but her immediate reaction, which I share, was “I don’t understand”.

That’s because she and I like dynamism. We like cameras changing, things not being static all the time. I personally get easily bored at static cameras. I have a really tough time getting through conversations in Daedelic games or something like TLJ (Even if it’s one of my fav games ever). So, it was something Jane saw in Cognition and TSL and pushed for having in Moebius.

I personally also find the models and animations in Moebius ok. I might be biased of course, but I never saw how “abysmal” they are compared to other similar games. I know they are not Final Fantasy caliber, but what else is?

Anyhow, that’s just me sharing some thoughts. Thanks for the good feedback. I think everyone should give this remake a go and see for themselves.

17 October 2014 05:03 AM #1221

Lambonius Sr. Adventurer

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Are there really many recent adventure games that require a AAA budget to pull off? I mean, in terms of realizing a concept? I honestly can’t think of any where I have ever been like, “Because of this game’s lack of budget, it is an abject failure at what it tried to do.” Sure there are things that could have better given larger budgets, but full-on failures? All of these games have been very playable, even the flawed ones.

17 October 2014 05:09 AM #1222

Lambonius Sr. Adventurer

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cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 05:03 AM

I personally also find the models and animations in Moebius ok. I might be biased of course, but I never saw how “abysmal” they are compared to other similar games.

They’re not abysmal at all. The only thing I found really distracting in the Moebius animations was some response lag when trying to get Malachi to perform certain actions. But even that I got used to, and I enjoyed the overall story and presentation.

17 October 2014 05:26 AM #1223

Bogi Adventurer

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Sometimes nothing is much better than something. I’m not sure how this “developers vs. players” war is good for the community, but I’m amazed how someone can be so blinded not to see that making bad games only hurts the genre.
And the idea that people should rally behind such a wreck (I’m sorry but it is what it is) like Moebius is setting new standards for living in illusion.

cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 05:03 AM

I personally also find the models and animations in Moebius ok. I might be biased of course, but I never saw how “abysmal” they are compared to other similar games. I know they are not Final Fantasy caliber, but what else is?

Malachi model was good??

I think I’m beginning to understand now why POS is delivering such subpar games.

Cognition was game I enjoyed to extent, but after that cart went downhill.

17 October 2014 05:49 AM #1224

chrissie Sr. Adventurer

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cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 04:37 AM
No, and that was a pipe dream of a comment. More like a moot point, really. So don’t take it too seriously.

Let’s just face it. We are doomed.

Seriously though, it is a problem that can’t be easily resolved. We wish we had more money to make these games better, there’s a demand for high caliber games that could never be there with these budgets. Its the chicken and the egg problem. Yes, there could have been a way to make a small game out of Moebius or a different design, but people have expectations of length, story and complexity from a Jane Jensen game. Which is why nobody really played her games from the 2000 decade.

So… I guess that’s it. There’s no solution.

Hi cesarbittar, no! you are not doomed & should not pay too much attention to the POS & JJ bashers, especially those that like to be very verbal on games they just haven’t played! There are many of us that very much liked Moebius, I thought it looked gorgeous despite a few flaws with animation in places & the rendering of just one character (for me). I loved your earlier post about your team’s passion for making the game - if you’re working for less than you earn at McDonalds - yep! that’s slave labour but I believe that the ‘learning curve’ will lead you to being a great development team given the chance! Gray Matter was given a good bashing at it’s time of release but now a few years later seems to be accepted more as a very good game so hopefully Moebius will be more appreciated in the future!

I’m very confident I’m going to love what you’ve done with GK - unfortunately although I pre-ordered the game I’m not going to have time to get stuck in for a while. I very much liked the original but played it years afterwards so I’m not much of a fan of playing in windowed mode & it took me a while to get my head around the interface.
Anyone that is against this remake doesn’t have to play it but it would be good if they don’t that they refrain from being so negative.

17 October 2014 05:59 AM #1225

cesarbittar Member

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I’m actually collecting these, so I thought I’d share. I consider anything above 7 a good review. Anything between 5-6 a mixed bag, and anything below a bad review. Here’s all the reviews from big and small sites that I’ve seen on the net. Please feel free to add more as they keep coming in.

Overall, responses for GK have been highly positive.

Mixed
http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/10/15/review-gabriel-knight-sins-of-the-fathers-20th-anniversary-edition/111907/ 3/5
http://twodashstash.com/2014/10/gabriel-knight-sins-of-the-fathers-20th-anniversary-edition-review/ 3/5
http://www.game4me.be/review-gabriel-knight-sins-fathers/ 3/5

Negative
http://www.technologytell.com/gaming/136770/review-gabriel-knight-sins-fathers-20th-anniversery-edition/ D
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/10/15/wot-i-think-gabriel-knight-20th-anniversary/ No score
http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/gabrielknightsinsofthefathers20thanniversaryedition/2438/review.html 4/10

17 October 2014 06:21 AM #1226

teme Regular

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cesarbittar - 17 October 2014 03:57 AM
tomimt - 17 October 2014 03:52 AM

I don’t want to be overly negative though, as it is evident that your team is getting more skilled by the each game they do. And that is a good thing. It’s just pains me a bit that has happened in the expense of Jane Jensen.

Sadly, no team of veterans would have made Moebius for 430k. Are you saying then Jane should not have made her game at all? Or chose to make a 1-2 hours experience?

Do you begin then to see the problem?

I think every developer team should know their skill level and adjust the game development and design choices to that (and I’m not talking about game length). A rough example: if I know that my development team isn’t good doing 3D models of plants and trees, I definitely wouldn’t include a jungle location to the 3D game we are developing.

One thing that bothered me about Moebius was that many of the criticized features could have been avoided with slightly less ambitious design choices. For example, I know you wanted to make the game cinematic and included all kinds of camera angles and close-ups to get that experience, but that cinematic style just showed the weak character models and awkward animations at close range.

17 October 2014 07:01 AM #1227

theo Sr. Member

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Those are some awesome reviews, cesar! Be proud.

Now developing: The Journey Down: Chapter Three

17 October 2014 07:26 AM #1228

diego Sr. Adventurer

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I don’t care about artistic. Yes, I will repeat hundred times that new Gabriel’s portrait SUCKS DONKEY ASS compared to the deep, troubled, serious comic-like portrait of the original, but that will never stop me from getting the game.

However, I’m not playing the game where correct dialog choices are highlighted, if there’s no option to turn it off. It’s the opposite of everything I love about adventure games. What’s next? There will be no need for dialog choices, you’ll just click on a character and they’ll speak? (actually, this would be a better option). Or, there will be no need to interact with other characters and bother players at all, characters will just telepathically understand each other?

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

17 October 2014 07:34 AM #1229

theo Sr. Member

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diego - 17 October 2014 07:26 AM
However, I’m not playing the game where correct dialog choices are highlighted, if there’s no option to turn it off. It’s the opposite of everything I love about adventure games.

Dude, do you remember how horrendously stupid it was in the original when you had to click through every single line over and over and over and over again just in case this time around it might lead somewhere? It was an immersion-break-a-thon beyond reason.

I haven’t tried the new version yet, but I say kudos to pos for trying to do something about that old stupid system. (if that’s what it is).

Now developing: The Journey Down: Chapter Three

17 October 2014 07:42 AM #1230

aaroncarney Regular

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I think it’s kind of unfair that just because we are an adventure game community we should be positive about ALL adventure games. I mean, have you ever checked the comments in gamespot? THAT’S a battlefield. I actually watch what I say here mostly.

As adventure game lovers we are the biggest critics, and every bit of criticism I’ve read so far in this thread is kind of warranted! I still definitely support the game and want it to do well, but I’m not gonna sit here and pretend it’s perfection because it certainly isn’t.

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