Adventure Gamers - Forums

Monolith - 22 September 2012 04:22 AM

xxax - 22 September 2012 03:32 AM

Oscar - 21 September 2012 11:47 PM

Sounds great from what I’ve been hearing. So what’s the difficulty like versus the previous games? I found Sherlock vs Ripper slightly easier than the previous entries, so I would hope they don’t make it any easier.

Since its also on consoles i’d bet its much easier.

Controls =/= Easier Gameplay, just better simpler controls.

Name one “hard” adventure game on consoles?

(modern of course)

I don’t remember many fetch quests or piecing together letters in the Frogwares games. I thought the puzzles in Arsene Lupin, the one I played most recently, were excellent. They were difficult and required a lot of close observation, like in the books. If the new one turns the detective work into LA Noire I’ll be sad.

Monolith - 22 September 2012 04:15 PM

xxax - 22 September 2012 09:46 AM

Monolith - 22 September 2012 04:22 AM

xxax - 22 September 2012 03:32 AM

Oscar - 21 September 2012 11:47 PM

Sounds great from what I’ve been hearing. So what’s the difficulty like versus the previous games? I found Sherlock vs Ripper slightly easier than the previous entries, so I would hope they don’t make it any easier.

Since its also on consoles i’d bet its much easier.

Controls =/= Easier Gameplay, just better simpler controls.

Name one “hard” adventure game on consoles?

(modern of course)

Define hard in your opinion, since even a lot of PC games are not hard. Just complicated. Demon Souls/Dark Souls, Braid, Borderlands 2, Arkham City, Dead Island, Assassins creed series (mainly the puzzle sequences), etc.

Also on topic of Sherlock, all of the frogware sherlock games (Except scalpel) have been released on consoles, so all of this bashing is completely irrelevant to the platform.

None of the games you listed are adventure games. The point i was trying to make was for adventure games. Also apart from Braid which is a puzzle game and Dark Souls/Deamon souls which are really hard (part of the appeal) the rest you listed are really easy games. As far as i know, the only Holmes game released for XBOX was Sherlock vs Jack the Ripper (the seperate wiki pages don’t mention any other release than PC), which is the most watered down of all the Sherlock games.

And its not the platform i’m bashing (i own a PS3). It’s the target audience. Adventure games are a niche genre therefore i’m worried that they have dumbed down this game too much to try and get a broader audience. I hope i’m wrong though… I’m waiting for some reviews before i buy it…

Hello,

few precisions,

Only Jack the Ripper was on Xbox, the Awakened or Arsene Lupin never knew a console version. They are going to be on Ipad, for the players that are interested. SH1 was ported on DS in 2009 and Silver Earring on Wii in 2011, but it’s not relevant to the dicussion.

The absence of The Awakened or Arsene Lupin on console has nothing to do with the difficulty of the games but with the console BUSINESS back in 2005-2008. The criteria to have a game on console at this time are not really connected to the… deductions that one can read on this thread. It will be too long to explain, but shortly let’s say that adventure games were not welcomed at this time.

Difficulty and consoles are not directly connected, it’s a publisher choice, when you pay 10 USD to manufacture an XBOX or PS3 disc, you’d better sell it, if you manufacture 300000, a failure leads to bankrupt, this decrease the level of risk you take and the level of difficulty publisher among others. When you release a game on XBLA and PSN it cost nothing, so difficulty risk is just on the publishing/production side.

@diego, I’m impressed you are creating graphics out of your own opinions, you do that with everything? the clothes you wear last month? the food you eat last week? the quality of your neighbors in the last 10 years?

The story of the Silver Earring is an investigation, whodunnit style, but it’s the only one we made, and on purpose, we never had the intention to create copy/paste in a series, unlike MANY adventure game series. Yes, doing so would have created a captive audience and people waiting for the next installment, but it’s boring for us and illogical in term of constant progress that computer entertainment allows. Every game we create is different in theme and atmosphere, for 12 years we’ve worked with Sherlock Holmes and applied this rule, Sherlock Holmes is universal enough to appear in many different settings, and this is why we can continue to work with him. Therefore our games are not necessarily for the same players every time, you would need to be at least open minded and be ready for something new, not being disappointed in advance because the new game doesn’t correspond to your needs in Nostalgia.

I want to make a summary of our Sherlock Holmes games so readers can follow the logic here:

The mummy was a simple puzzle game, short with a very simple story, but we learned how to make game doing it.
the Silver Earring is a whodunnit adventure, with the quizzes that were so heavily criticized in North America for their complexity, including on this website
The Awakened is an ADVENTURE taking Sherlock Holmes abroad and facing Supernatural element, introducing 3D for the series
Versus Arsene Lupin is a puzzle game of very high complexity mixing poems, 3D environment and tons of tiny details
Jack The Ripper is a fictionnal investigation, by the way since 2009 the rate of Jacob Levy being the Ripper went high in the charts of the Ripperologists, National Geographic even invited some criminalists with nice haircuts, making a show taking 80% of the arguments developed in the game to prove that the Ripper was Jacob Levy, how he disappear and why he wasn’t caught… How funny a video game influence criminalists with 30 years of experience (with watered down puzzles of course).
The Testament of Sherlock Holmes is an investigation about Sherlock Holmes himself, it’s more beautiful (and hopefully) and it’s also more accessible, with less blocks and puzzles that cannot be passed (you can skip them if you want to after 5 minutes). Is it simpler to play? I don’t think the players would agree on this, at least it’s not what they write on French Forums. but Yes, I will never do a game as hard as Arsene Lupin again.

Why? Because people interested in the game didn’t play myst in bulgarian version before, because they expect something else than you do, not to be stuck in their progression of the game or the story because of some puzzles. You call it watered down, so be it…

The most difficult of our games is of course Arsene Lupin (and not Silver Earring…), 80% of the journalist couldn’t beat the first quizz and the game was bashed by the critics because of the difficulty of the puzzles. The game getting low marks, people got suspicious about it, and you who are asking for difficulty are not better, you want to wait for the opinion of the others, meaning that if the game is not well ranked you won’t play it, even if it’s because of the difficulty you are asking for.

The french players are playing the Testament for a week and they are fighting their way through the game, it’s cool to see Xbox and PS3 players that only played LA noire engaging their brain in the puzzles of the Testament and liking it.

However old can be Sherlock Holmes, our games are not for nostalgic adventure players that want to find the flavor on the 90’s and the 320*240 8 bits color windows. The Testament of Sherlock Holmes was created in order to bring adventure games widely to a public that doesn’t know them necessarily yet and who is asking for more variety on their possible choices, whether they are on console or PC.

Thanks for the response.

Although making fun of a respected member for expressing his opinion was not a good start.

And then stating you try to progress and push the medium and not make the same game…..but then say you let people skip puzzles after five minutes, due the fact that the media have had trouble with your hard games in the past…..is a total confirmation of everyones concerns in this thread.

Catering to a wider audience, with easier game play…... So do you have awareness of exactly what forum you just posted that on?

Think I’m going to go to the cycling forum and tell everyone how I have been working on this new kind of bicycle, its got four wheels and an engine and will appeal to non-cyclists…..they will all LOVE ME!

No offence, but you guys need to get a proper customer communication guy.

Not impressed and will therefore not go near your games from now on.

Good job! 

That’s very harsh IMO Idrisguitar. You must also take into account that the target audience has changed. It’s not only the young people who have time and don’t mind spending hours each day who play adventure games anymore. Lots of people in their 40s also play AGs now; people who picked up the genre in their teens or twenties and are now still hooked, but don’t have the time to spend hours on a game every night anymore because they have a job and kids. I think being able to skip a puzzle after 5 minutes is a very good way of catering to that audience without making the game easier to play for the people who like hard puzzles. And if almost nobody can solve your puzzles because you made them too hard it’s a wise business decision to make the puzzles easier in the next game.

tsa - 23 September 2012 06:34 AM

And if almost nobody can solve your puzzles because you made them too hard it’s a wise business decision to make the puzzles easier in the next game.

Good business decision; bad artistic decision. What to do? I understand the importance of good business - after all, it’s the only reason companies can stay alive to make more games… but skipping a puzzle after 5 minutes? I haven’t played Testament yet but doesn’t that spoil the thrill of playing as Holmes, the world’s greatest detective?

The point is that you don’t have to skip it if you don’t want to. Some of the Carol Reed games also have that option, and I think it’s great. The player decides how much time she wants to invest in the game and how much she will be immersed.

Giving the option to skip is better than just reducing difficulty altogether.

Better still may be to give a “hint” type option that effectively reduces the difficulty but doesn’t skip things completely.
For a game designed for the widest possible audiences, how about an option for hard or easy puzzles? Maybe even give the ability to change mid-game. Then if someone plays it on hard and finds it too difficult, they could switch to easy. And vice versa

tsa - 23 September 2012 07:02 AM

The point is that you don’t have to skip it if you don’t want to. Some of the Carol Reed games also have that option, and I think it’s great. The player decides how much time she wants to invest in the game and how much she will be immersed.

I can understand that, but there are walkthroughs available. It just doesn’t appeal to me, mainly because Holmes doesn’t have a ‘solve’ button available when he’s investigating a crime.

At what point do we get rid of puzzles altogether because the general audience can’t be bothered? When does the player get the blame for not trying hard enough?