[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by LeisureSuitedLooney

That's the hardest part for me: trying to "read"people. I'm terrible at it. I often take on friendships and relationships that turn out to be situations where I find out I'm being made fun of or used in some way. I even had a best friend who, every autumn, like clockwork, would play "mind games" with his circle of friends, purely to manipulate their emotions and be entertained by the attention it got him. After about the 3rd time, seeing it happen at the same time each year, I refused to have anything more to do with him, and others followed suit. But that was a 3 year friendship, so, yeah, I'm VERY bad at reading people, until the damage has been done.

Maybe he forgot April is in spring...

Though, emotional reactions are fun. My own first and foremost, then other people's. Do I manipulate them? I RP, so I certainly do. Granted, people know what they're getting into, but that doesn't lessen the mindfuck. Only just recently a roleplay had me bawling my eyes out. Fun stuff. </mostly unrelated babble>

Maybe part of the reason I like the standard 'mind games' so much (playing hard to get, etc), is because I have an incredibly spot-on empathy, especially on the 'net - given that you and Jeysie seem not to be the empathic type?

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

I get terribly upset, too - but it passes very quickly. Usually, whenever I touch BoyToy (hands, shoulder, whatever), or vice versa, any irritation just falls away. Since I've noticed this, I've tried to avoid body-contact when I want to be pissy at him... but, well, even then, grudges are hard to hold (which is what I meant with trying).

I'm also a sucker for physical contact. My hubby knows that if he crossed the line of what I can take in an argument or those times I was so depressed and even small issues turned my world upside down, all he had to do was hug me, and I would feel a lot better.

[lostwolfe]

mind games, et al:

given that i'm /immensely/ bad at reading people, i don't go there. if i like someone, i generally try to make it plain. on the other side of the coin, i tend to think that short romances are not a good idea. my take on it is that if you're going to spend any decent amount of time with the person, then you probably want to get to know them fairly well, otherwise it's not worth pursuing. [or might be worth pursuing on a lesser level. "lesser" level being anything from simply going to bed with or just hanging out with.]

i tend towards jeysie's way of thinking, but perhaps that's merely because i'm bad with people. it's difficult for me to read them, because my forte lies with things, rather than humans. i'm quite patient around humans, but i don't like being lied to and i don't take very kindly to mind-gaming. given that i'm not monogamous, i find this particularly important. i tend to be upfront about everything all the time. if the other person can't deal with it, for whatever reason, then i've effectively sifted through the human pool finding one fewer person to hang out with. on the plus side, it means that i'm that "one step closer" to the person i /want/ to spend time with. [or persons, as it may be]

i understand and realize that i'm somewhat derailing the conversation and for that i apologize, but since we started talking about this, i figured i'd make my views on the subject at least somewhat clear.

going back to the original question at hand, there's /one/ quality i probably didn't mention: i tend to like/tend towards men with deep voices. that's something that's quite a large attractor in my case.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by Jelena

I'm also a sucker for physical contact. My hubby knows that if he crossed the line of what I can take in an argument or those times I was so depressed and even small issues turned my world upside down, all he had to do was hug me, and I would feel a lot better.

Hehe, it's evil when they catch on, isn't it? *fond grin*

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

[...] i'm quite patient around humans, but i don't like being lied to and i don't take very kindly to mind-gaming. [...]

Do you equate the two? Because I don't talk kindly to lies, either. Honesty is my only virtue, and I expect it in other people, too, else they can go to... well, whatever the nastiest place they believe in is, heh. So I expect mind games to stay within either not-saying or the-answer-is-maybe. Not the-answer-is-no,-never, or the likes.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

[...] given that i'm not monogamous, i find this particularly important. [...]

*three cheers!* I'm not alone!

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

[...] i tend to be upfront about everything all the time. [...]

*four cheers! ...er* I'm not alone!

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

i understand and realize that i'm somewhat derailing the conversation and for that i apologize, but since we started talking about this, i figured i'd make my views on the subject at least somewhat clear.

Well, I'm glad you 'derailed' it.

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

'Ruins the excitement' isn't an "excuse". It shouldn't stop anyone, of course, but I'd sure be disappointed if someone told me my flirting/playing is just an excuse not to get a relationship started. Actually, I'd probably not pick up a relationship with them at all, heh.

Ah, but you can flirt/play with someone equally as well once you have affirmed your real feelings for each other... and IMHO that's more fun because you get to enjoy the other aspects of being romantically involved too.

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Bold by me. That has nothing to do with mind games, IMO - there's nothing game-y about it if you're keeping your real feelings impossible to read. The rest is great fun.

I can't help but think you and I have a different definition of mind games. To me, mind games means purposefully not letting on how you really feel/what you really think about something.

If everyone knows there's gaming going on, and that the real answer will be revealed eventually (Mysteriousness and evasiveness while being the GameMaster in RP comes to mind) then it's fun. But if I'm trying to "get something done" (like figuring out where I stand with somebody) then I find it frustrating.

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

I figured that, in the end, it boils down to being one of those things a part of wanting to give your best for someone else. Confronted with a bit of a challenge, you get that oppurtunity handed to you in a gratis fashion.

*shrugs slightly* If I like someone, I always try to give my best to them and make them happy... I don't need an artificially created challenge as an excuse.

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Maybe part of the reason I like the standard 'mind games' so much (playing hard to get, etc), is because I have an incredibly spot-on empathy, especially on the 'net - given that you and Jeysie seem not to be the empathic type?

I wouldn't call myself not empathic... I can think of several occasions where people have accused me of reading their minds or offering a spot-on analysis of them.

I'm usually good at observing people's behavior and picking up on patterns and why they do certain things. So I can usually tell when someone's playing games with me... and that's why I tend to dislike it. If someone keeps changing their behavior constantly, says one thing but does/thinks another, suddenly shows a side of behavior I've never seen before, etc. it throws me off and makes me wary/uncomfortable of them until I can fit the new observations into my thinking and how to deal with them.

And then there's the times when somebody fools me by doing something I've observed would be in-character based on their past behavior, yet turns out to be insincere... that really gets under my collar and makes me feel like a moron. (And, like most people, I don't like being made to feel stupid.)

I suppose I should say I'm a creature of routine. I'm happiest when I'm familiar with everything around me to the point of it being comfortable and predictable so I always know how to react to it. So whenever faced with a new person or situation I prefer to get through the stage of awkward uncertainty and not knowing what's going on quickly so I can reach the comfortably predictable stage. And I tend to get annoyed when I *think* I'm at that comfort stage, and something changes it and knocks it back down to "uncertain" again.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Jeysie

There's a big difference between two people who already know how each *really* feels about the other joking around, and two people flirting to get to know each other who are messing with each other's minds and not letting on how they really feel. The former I find fun, yes. The latter I find frustrating and don't understand why people seem to like it.

You always hear all this advice about "playing hard-to-get" and the power of being "mysterious", when to me someone who's mysterious, misleading, and/or hard to get a read on is usually a big turn off for me. Then again, that's probably part of why I'm hopelessly single (which kind of fuels my annoyance).

I feel exactly the same way. No wonder I'm not getting any...

[Melanie68]

Remember that ridiculous book The Rules from a few years ago. That's the kind of crap that they were promoting. Be meek and quiet and agree with everything he says and turn down the date even though you really want to go, etc. The women who do that kind of shit get idiotic men and they can have them.

http://www.therulesbook.com/ (that's the first time I've used that smiley)

[Lee in Limbo]

It's all trial and error and truth or dare. You just have to get into the game, play through to the finish, and try to learn from your mistakes, however it all turns out.

I've known a great number of smart, charming, funny, attractive women over the years, and very often, they too suffer from the same basic problem as these supposed 'Nice Guys'; unreasonable expectations.

When men and women stop looking for some mythical ideal (and I'm not talking about the stereotypical 'T&A/Mr.Right thing, either) and start looking at and appreciating the people they actually are and can be close with, they'll find happiness with someone who really suits them.

Sadly, even the right person for you might not be ready when you are, and all the efforts in the world to make them so fail miserably. I've had a number of relationships where I was convinced that 'This one is The One for me', only to watch them leave. Sometimes, it's just not the right time. *sigh*

I didn't find my mate until I was already in my 30s, and frankly, I consider myself damned lucky to have gotten it right. It's not 'perfect', and lots of things in my life are less than ideal. But I know she's good for me, and she has the willingness to stick with me through the tough bits. I'd do anything to take care of her and keep her by my side. It's really all any one of us can ask for.

[Hammerite]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

Be meek and quiet and agree with everything he says

i'd be bored shitless if i went out with someone who agreed with every possible thing i said.
it'd be so fake.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Lee in Limbo

I didn't find my mate until I was already in my 30s, and frankly, I consider myself damned lucky to have gotten it right. It's not 'perfect', and lots of things in my life are less than ideal. But I know she's good for me, and she has the willingness to stick with me through the tough bits. I'd do anything to take care of her and keep her by my side. It's really all any one of us can ask for.

I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'perfect' relationship. Perhaps with an item. And if there never were times of disagreement I actually think life would be boring.
As you said: a willingness to stick together through the tough times is the best we all could hope for. I'd say that's an evicence of love.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Jelena

I don't believe there is such a thing as a 'perfect' relationship. Perhaps with an item. And if there never were times of disagreement I actually think life would be boring.
As you said: a willingness to stick together through the tough times is the best we all could hope for. I'd say that's an evicence of love.

I know that life in my house would be boring if my husband and I didn't disagree every one and a while. My husband is the type after he gets mad and says what’s on his mind he feels that he can hug me and it all be over. not me I have to stew about things and run them over in my head for awhile before I am ready to put that problem away. But when we got married we promised each other that we would never go to bed mad at each other and that has helped us very much.

[lostwolfe]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

do you equate the two? because i don't talk kindly to lies, either. honesty is my only virtue, and i expect it in other people, too, else they can go to... well, whatever the nastiest place they believe in is, heh. so I expect mind games to stay within either not-saying or the-answer-is-maybe. not the-answer-is-no,-never, or the likes.

i recognize that the two can be seperate. in fact, i guess i'd consider "lying" and "game playing" to be seperate issues, entirely. lying is --> "this is an untruth, i'm not playing with you." game playing could run all the way from "i'm not admitting something," to "i'm holding this back, but you'll eventually find out the truth."

as it turns out, i like neither approach overmuch. one of my pet peeves is [as an crude and somewhat trite example] people who - on the internet - use another name to screen themselves and then play "guess who this is." i dislike that, because it's such a complete waste of time. in much the same way, a man playing some kind of game like that in real life just gets bothersome. [of course, he can't play "guess who this is," but he can do some equally moronic stuff.]

as for the rest, i wasn't /always/ a polygamist. this grew up out of dinner conversations in texas in nineteen ninety nine with a good friend. actually, that trip kind of changed much of the way i think about everything.

[Stoofa]

The boys I like never like me back, possibly because I become enchanted with men who are far wittier and intelligent than I. I'd rather be single than settle, so I can't say I'm unhappy with the situation.

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

[...]

Ooh, you're a cheeky quote-editor like me! Don't you go ruin my perfect punctuation like that!

lostwolfe

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

one of my pet peeves is [as an crude and somewhat trite example] people who - on the internet - use another name to screen themselves and then play "guess who this is."

I doubt I could stand someone doing that. What I don't mind is people who might end up taking up a different persona without doing "guess who this is" to illustrate a point - e.g., corruption in moderators on a forum, or something along those lines, or bias to people who don't realise it, or somesuch things. But I'll definitely agree on the "guess who this is" front - I can't see merit in that.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

as for the rest, i wasn't /always/ a polygamist. this grew up out of dinner conversations in texas in nineteen ninety nine with a good friend. actually, that trip kind of changed much of the way i think about everything.

Is there a long version of that story readable anywhere? I'd be really interested. Providing, of course, you'd want to share.

[Sage]

I went through a polygamy phase for a while.
While it definitely had it's charms, I came to realize that my innate selfishness is too strong to allow me to take such relationships seriously. Frankly, I found that if I'm in a committed relationship, then I want someone who is mine and that I don't have to share with anyone else on an intimate level.
On the other hand when I'm single, I'm really, really single.

[lostwolfe]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

ooh, you're a cheeky quote-editor like me! don't you go ruin my perfect punctuation like that!

i'm not /really/editing your punctuation. just your smilies. ;)

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

what i don't mind is people who might end up taking up a different persona without doing "guess who this is" to illustrate a point - e.g., corruption in moderators on a forum, or something along those lines, or bias to people who don't realise it, or somesuch things.

for me this is a "lesser evil" - i feel that people can make all these points by staying themselves. don't like a moderator? tell them - and tell them why. don't like the way someone's acting. tell them - and tell them why. i'm fairly easy, though. it takes a /lot/ for people to truly and completely annoy me.

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

is there a long version of that story readable anywhere? i'd be really interested. providing, of course, you'd want to share.

there isn't, largely because i was a mess, psychologically at the time. writing down the winding course of that nine months never occurred to me until /far/ afterwards, when it was done with. i have a continually evolving journal online, which does [indirectly and very occasionally] touch on what happened in texas, but you'd have to wade through a lot of my other musings first.

also - my journal, such that it is, largely focuses on what i'm currently going through and how i'm dealing with it. in other words, my journal is one large, giant emotional morass. if you're still interested, here you go -->

lostwolfe's online journal

as a fair warning to everyone reading, i /do/ screen comments.

[i've had some...odd people try and drop comments into my journal before.]

sage:

your take on it is well and good. everyone needs to do it the way they're most comfortable otherwise it wouldn't work.

[however, i feel compelled to ponit out that if i were in closer range, i'd certainly take you out on a date, if i could muster the courage and you'd allow it.]

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

i'm not /really/editing your punctuation. just your smilies.

I meant capitalisation. I'm a bit distracted at the moment - last exam of a nasty batch is tomorrow, and that ought to clear my head, heh. Sorry for being confusing/stupid.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

for me this is a "lesser evil" - i feel that people can make all these points by staying themselves.

Oh, agreed. Or rather, not entirely, since not everyone can. And I don't feel it's a question of not liking someone - au contraire, it's often spawned from respect in all points but one where the individual appears to be in bias; at least, in the occasions I've seen it happen.

Let's put it this way, I greatly prefer seeing the direct way chosen, and choosing the direct way myself. It shouldn't be anything but a last resort, if that.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

if you're still interested, here you go -->

*prods, watches it tremble like jelly* ...eeee... *carefully bookmarks, hoping it's not going to explode*

[Sage]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

Sage:

Your take on it is well and good. Everyone needs to do it the way they're most comfortable otherwise it wouldn't work.

Exactly. I can certainly see how polygamy would work great for a lot of people, but my own personal attention span is too narrow and focused to encompass multiple partners for any length of time.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

[However, I feel compelled to point out that if I were in closer range, I'd certainly take you out on a date, if I could muster the courage and you'd allow it.]

And I feel compelled to point out that if I were not currently seeing someone and if you were in closer range, I'd be honored to accept your offer.

[seebaruk]

Hello, I like whispering too, it's fun

To return to an earlier point, my gf and I argue all the time, but it's always jokey arguments. Plus I'm always right, and then I get to do my triumphant "ah-hahh-haaaahh!" laugh.