[Giligan]

what is the point? to some of us, fan games are a waste of time. to some, just some people making a game, enjoying it, not wanting money. now we have people who want to say we make lousy games. if you don't like what us fangamers do, leave us alone! we aren't trying to start an enterprise.

[Oliveira]

Seems like there has been a lot of discussion in this thread.

I can't say that all fan made adventures are shit. I remember the first adventures I played, "permenant daylight" and "night of the hermit", those two games introduced me into the genre.

Since then I have played quite a few fan games, including titles like "out of order" and "gilbert badbone", and I have to admit, that I was disappointed by most of them. Crude graphics, lack of an original, well-thought-out storyline and bad writing are some of the things that turned me down.

But despite these and other numerous weaknesses, I can still sense considerable talent in many of these games. Above all I appreciate the enthusiasm of those who dedicated their time and effort to share their love of adventure games with us gamers.

I believe everyone here in this forum likes adventure games, and would like this genre to last. But commercial adventure games are shrinking every year, and not many good games (I have a rather fastidious taste in games) turn up these days. It is important for the genre to gather up new talents, and fan games are more or less keeping the tradition alive.

So instead of criticizing or defending fan games, why don't we offer some constructive suggestions? Sure, a lot fan games maybe considered shit, but dashing it out to the developers in such a blunt way does not help things. Grant it that if the developer is tolerant, we just pointed out something that he/she is probably already painfully aware of. If the deveper is not so inclined to criticism, we have just discouraged him/her by giving him/her the impression that their efforts are not gratefully received.

Personally I have a grand vision for future fan games. If we take a look at KQIX, here is an ambitious fan game that strives for professional quality, with graphics and sound that hope to rival commercial games. Why isn't there more games like this? Perhaps if we all contribute a bit of ideas, support and work, we can form an online community dedicated to the production of high quality "amateur" games, where adventure game lovers can lend their experience and creativity, and where game programmer/artist wannabes can test their skills and talent.

Arguing the failings of fan games isn't a big deal. They are out there, plain for all to see. We do not want to discourage developers, we want to help them, organize them, so that their dreams and ideas can be realized in better ways - it is ultimately beneficial for everyone here. So let's see some constructive comments here.

[Rayvielle]

I would also like to point out that there are a great many developers who ENCOURAGE fan input. I know I'm switching genre's here, but a big reason why there is such a HUGE online following for First Person Shooters, is because the public have created their own maps, and game variations. Counterstrike, probably the most played internet game of all, was originally designed independently!

Let's face it, Vivendi coming out, giving a press release to allow the KQ9 project to resume, is like conceeding a battle! The fans spoke and they listened!

(A side note - I cannot wait to see how this game turns out, I've been following this project for a long time, and the trailer REALLY whet my appetite)

We are all fans of adventure games, we all want to see these games develop, we want to explore new worlds, and be engaged by exciting new storylines, that shake our imagination! We are fortunate, that there are people out there, attempting to guide us toward their vision, of how the future of these games should be carved. For the time, the effort, and the hardship that they go through, all I shall feel is respect, and admiration for their efforts, whether I choose to indulge in them or not.

[Agustin]

Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr

This is the most pointless thread I've seen on AG in quite some time.

Amen to that! I'm even feeling guilty that I posted. Uhm... twice

Anyway, to answer his question, I'm indeed working on a game. But, since we have been striving for over two years, lacking resources and not seeing one dime yet, I guess the result will be a piece of crap.

It's a good thing I couldn't care less about a journalist desperately demanding some attention... I just wanted to point out that one of the reasons that has kept this genre alive and kicking has been its incredibly active community, and precisely by producing fangames. Some may be good and some may be bad... but they certainly deserve more constructive criticism instead of "they're sh*t".

[After a brisk nap]

This might be a good time to mention that I've recently become involved in a game project myself. The idea is to do an open collaboration which allows lots of people to contribute to the same game. It's already attracted a number of talented people (such as myself ). We're currently in the design stage, and haven't really got much to show for our efforts yet, but if you head on over to the Massive AGS Project forums, you can see our work as it progresses and even help us out.

[Scoville]

Originally Posted by Rayvielle

I would also like to point out that there are a great many developers who ENCOURAGE fan input. I know I'm switching genre's here, but a big reason why there is such a HUGE online following for First Person Shooters, is because the public have created their own maps, and game variations. Counterstrike, probably the most played internet game of all, was originally designed independently!

Let's face it, Vivendi coming out, giving a press release to allow the KQ9 project to resume, is like conceeding a battle! The fans spoke and they listened!

There is a world of difference between fanmade shooter mods and KQ9. Mods extend the life of a commercial product and, in doing so, increase people's desire to purchase the game in the first place. A fan made sequel does not require the purchase of any actual game.

[After a brisk nap]

Bestselling sequels and remakes routinely boost the sales of the original. I find it difficult to believe that attracting more people to a King's Quest game wouldn't increase interest in the previous games in the series.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

I don't write off an amateur game immediately. I write it off later

This is not what the thread title says. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Giligan]

if you want audeosoldier to take a long walk off a short pier, then we are doing the wrong thing. posting encourages him. just ignore him.

[fov]

Originally Posted by Ninth

This is not what the thread title says. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Well, it's worth remembering that AudioSoldier didn't choose the thread title. That was written by a mod when this thread was split from the KQ9 thread.

And I don't think anyone wants anyone to take a long walk off a short pier. Let's try not to make this discussion personal.

EDIT: Welcome to the forum, Oliveira.

[Jackal]

Yeah, no need for things to get nasty. Actually, this thread has kind of turned into a "celebrate amateur games" theme, apart from our misguided journalist friend who confuses assumption for knowledge.

It's kinda sweet, really.

Okay, now back to being jaded:

Let's face it, Vivendi coming out, giving a press release to allow the KQ9 project to resume, is like conceeding a battle! The fans spoke and they listened!

It's a little naïve to think that Vivendi's decision had anything to do with public response. I'm sure they did what they considered to be in their own best interest, and we're just fortunate that it didn't conflict with ours. Vivendi allowing fan licenses has already happened, after all, so the cease and desist was likely just a legal measure to ensure negotiations happened on their terms.

(This is off topic, I know, but it's only fair, since this thread split off from the KQ9 one. )

[odnorf]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

Right. I'm not disputing the fact that they have good intentions at heart, or the fact that they're free, but they're still crap in my mind.

I'd like to hear one point why WME is crap in your mind. Have you tested it?
Did you know that there are a few commercial adventures currently being developed with wme?
Check http://www.juniper-games.com/sapphire/sapphire.htm
(Just to give one example. There are more)
It's being developend by Steve Ince. Yes, the same guy that was working for Revolution Software. Check around the net for an interview of him to read his opinion about WME.

PS. Darkfall & Darkfall 2 adventures were created by one person.

[odnorf]

Also, try http://offstudio.fabry.cz for a very good freeware adventure. And yes, I'd pay for it. Also check this comment about this game http://offstudio.fabry.cz/forum/index.php?topic=162

[eriq]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I can understand your frustration with "fan games". That's what they are.. games made by fans. One can't expect the level of polish you'd get from a professional team.

It should be noted, however, that there are a handful of "amateur" teams producing some truly notable titles. And most all of these teams are working with members spanning the globe... not an easy task. Very few of these titles get finished. Many of these team members go on to fruitful gaming careers, however. And these projects serve to hone their skills.

There's nothing wrong with expressing your distaste for fan games. Discussion and deconstruction in a public forum, in my opinion, can only be good for the "fan game" community. People are paying attention. People are playing!

And if you don't enjoy "fan games" ... don't play them! Don't download!

[Squinky]

Whoa... did I just miss a flame war?

Oliveira, it's Cubert Badbone, not Gilbert Badbone. Unless, of course, the game you actually played was Gilbert Goodmate.

Journalist dude, you HAVE to play Richard Longhurst and the Box That Ate Time.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Whoa... did I just miss a flame war?

Oliveira, it's Cubert Badbone, not Gilbert Badbone. Unless, of course, the game you actually played was Gilbert Goodmate.

Journalist dude, you HAVE to play Richard Longhurst and the Box That Ate Time.

OK, I'll look into it. And while my words may have been a tad harsh, I'm merely stating a point about a collection of games I haven't been impressed by.

Should I walk off a pier, jump from a rocky cliff or slit my wrists for disliking fangames?



I'm pretty disappointed some (if not all) think I'm an attention seeker. If you look at my posting history, I've never started a thread with the intention of a flame-war. I didn't start this one either...

Edit: Oh, and Steve Ince's game isn't a shoddy fan-game. He has the intention of having it published. I interviewed him regarding Juniper Crescent too.

There's nothing specifically wrong with WME . It's the games created on the engine that are absolutely un-engaging.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Ninth

This is not what the thread title says. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Firstly, I didn't chose the thread title. Moreover, the titling of the thread doesn't indicate that I immediately sum up fan-games as shit. I simply believe they're shit having played them. So..."fan games are shit".

Edit: For what it's worth, I found the Scratches artwork impressive. Yeah, someone will twist my words now.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Yeah, no need for things to get nasty. Actually, this thread has kind of turned into a "celebrate amateur games" theme, apart from our misguided journalist friend who confuses assumption for knowledge.

It's kinda sweet, really.

Okay, now back to being jaded:



It's a little naïve to think that Vivendi's decision had anything to do with public response. I'm sure they did what they considered to be in their own best interest, and we're just fortunate that it didn't conflict with ours. Vivendi allowing fan licenses has already happened, after all, so the cease and desist was likely just a legal measure to ensure negotiations happened on their terms.

(This is off topic, I know, but it's only fair, since this thread split off from the KQ9 one. )

Heck, I'm not assuming I'm correct and that you're all a bunch of idiots, despite the implications. It's merely my opinion, and it's diabolically sad that I'm being lambasted so greatly for it.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

Heck, I'm not assuming I'm correct and that you're all a bunch of idiots, despite the implications. It's merely my opinion, and it's diabolically sad that I'm being lambasted so greatly for it.

Your opinion is your opinion (which is fine) but how you chose to frame your opinion resulted in you 'getting lambasted.' If you say 'I feel fan games are...' then you are only stating your opinion but the minute you say fan games are s***, you have insulted people (those who make games and those who disagree with you) because it looks like you are belittling their opinion. You walked on very dangerous territory with your statement. Your not the first person who has done it on this forum. It seems the most heated discussions come when the word 'crap' or 's***' is used in reference to something.

<steps off soapbox>

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

Your opinion is your opinion (which is fine) but how you chose to frame your opinion resulted in you 'getting lambasted.' If you say 'I feel fan games are...' then you are only stating your opinion but the minute you say fan games are s***, you have insulted people (those who make games and those who disagree with you) because it looks like you are belittling their opinion. You walked on very dangerous territory with your statement. Your not the first person who has done it on this forum. It seems the most heated discussions come when the word 'crap' or 's***' is used in reference to something.

<steps off soapbox>

<Steals Soap Box>

*ahem*

I totally agree, I know some blunt people online but not as blunt as saying Fan games are shit or this is sh1t or that is sh1t. Try and target what fan project YOU think is sh1tty, and then try to develop your ideas on why you think its sh1tty. I don't see the point in this conversation, we're making no progress with this guy...