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Old 12-15-2005, 09:39 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky
"Badly written English and piss-poor dialogue"? How does that even remotely describe Two of a Kind or Cirque de Zale?
When I think "badly written English and piss-poor dialogue," the examples that come to my mind are all commercial games.
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Old 12-15-2005, 09:52 AM   #42
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Why should I be carrying respect? It's up to the game to make me respect the effort put in.
Let me rephrase then. Lose the blatant disrespect, and use the proper standards, or the failing is yours. Your standard clearly seems to be "look as good as bigger budget commercial games". That being the case, you're right. You're wasting your time playing them. By all means, pay your money for the esthetic enhancements. But it's not a game's fault for failing to meet standards it never sought to achieve.

Incidentally, who here is touting fan games as the "next big thing"? I must have missed it. Perhaps you're confusing that with "not shit", which really aren't much alike.
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Old 12-15-2005, 10:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by AudioSoldier
I've played some of the remakes too. They're not bad, but I'm yet to see a standalone adventure that's any good, with the possible exception of Cirque.
King Quest 2 remake is almost like a new game, for all the stuff that they added to it.

And who cares whether it's a remake or not? It's free, it's amateur, and therefore, by your standards, it should be shit. Well, my opinion is that it's better than most Sierra games, which are considered classic by many (probably you included).
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:13 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fov
You didn't answer the question. It's hard to understand where you're coming from if you're not willing/able to give an example of what you consider the ideal to be.
It depends on what you're looking for: A 3D adventure, or a point and clicker with ace backgrounds. Still Life fits the latter, and something like Escape From Monkey Island is still a great looking 3D adventure game, five years after its late 2000 release.

Edit: I think you're asking what my ideal adventure games are visually, although I'm not certain since you've been rather vague too.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fov
When I think "badly written English and piss-poor dialogue," the examples that come to my mind are all commercial games.
Well yes, Still Life did have one grammatical error.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:18 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninth
King Quest 2 remake is almost like a new game, for all the stuff that they added to it.

And who cares whether it's a remake or not? It's free, it's amateur, and therefore, by your standards, it should be shit. Well, my opinion is that it's better than most Sierra games, which are considered classic by many (probably you included).
I don't write off an amateur game immediately. I write it off later once It's proven itself as...Well, as you all like to quote, "shit".
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:20 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal
Let me rephrase then. Lose the blatant disrespect, and use the proper standards, or the failing is yours. Your standard clearly seems to be "look as good as bigger budget commercial games". That being the case, you're right. You're wasting your time playing them. By all means, pay your money for the esthetic enhancements. But it's not a game's fault for failing to meet standards it never sought to achieve.

Incidentally, who here is touting fan games as the "next big thing"? I must have missed it. Perhaps you're confusing that with "not shit", which really aren't much alike.
A lot of people were extremely keen for KQ9 to be completed. I simply didn't -- and still don't -- think it'll be much good. At least, I'm positive it won't be the worthy successor to the Kings Quest series everyone expects it to be and I don't believe it warrants the hype it has been receiving, or the endless howling for it's development process to be resumed.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:26 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky
"Badly written English and piss-poor dialogue"? How does that even remotely describe Two of a Kind or Cirque de Zale?

Many people consider TLJ one of the greatest adventure games of all time. Saying that amateur games are a waste of time because they don't reach the same level of quality is like arguing that you're wasting your time any time you're watching a movie that isn't The Godfather (or Citizen Kane, if you prefer).

How many commercial adventure games came out this year that are clearly superior to the best amateur games produced? Half a dozen? Hardly any more than that.

The question isn't whether the best amateur games are as good as the best commercial games. They're not. The question is whether the best amateur games are good enough to be in the class of games "well worth playing". I think they are. You keep slating amateur games in general terms, but I'd like you to explain what was so bad about the games you've played.
I've found them absolutely un-engaging; soulless repeats of adventure games gone by. It's time to move on: Indigo Prophecy has shown as such. These fangames are just a testament to the stagnant state the genre is in.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:31 AM   #49
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Actually, there are games in the shop that shouldn't be there. The game has to be pretty bad not to be "worthy" of a commercial release.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:38 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue
Actually, there are games in the shop that shouldn't be there. The game has to be pretty bad not to be "worthy" of a commercial release.
So why haven't these fangames been commercially released? Because they're not good enough? I'm not quite sure what to make of your post.
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoldier
So why haven't these fangames been commercially released?
First and foremost, because their authors never wanted them to, ergo they didn't even try to find the publisher or anything. What did you think?
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:03 PM   #52
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First and foremost, because their authors never wanted them to, ergo they didn't even try to find the publisher or anything. What did you think?
I think they don't have the confidence to approach a publisher, or are flatly turned down. There isn't a market for short-of-length adventure games.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:36 PM   #53
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So, in short, you hate fan games, and you're especially upset that they don't cost money, because if they did, you could call them overpriced rip-offs, which you can't, because they don't.

Is that correct?
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr
So, in short, you hate fan games, and you're especially upset that they don't cost money, because if they did, you could call them overpriced rip-offs, which you can't, because they don't.

Is that correct?
I don't think fan games are any good. That's all.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:46 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr
So, in short, you hate fan games, and you're especially upset that they don't cost money, because if they did, you could call them overpriced rip-offs, which you can't, because they don't.

Is that correct?
I dont see whats there to hate? 99% of them all are free, so if you hate them so much just don't play them.

(even though I bet you actually play fan games, even though you hate them. )
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:47 PM   #56
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Wow. I guess all independent movies are shit too because they weren't released by major studios.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:51 PM   #57
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So, based on 8-10 fangames you have played, you are concluding that the entire fangame community is producing crap?

Interesting.

I know of someone who had been working 3 years on a game, never gave-up and managed to release it, free, after a great deal of work. How is that less dedicated than someone being paid to do a game?

Mind you, it turns out that game made some people very happy. It was called Other Worlds. Certainly, the graphics are horrible, but it provided hours of good and free fun.

Really, you do have a face to call those games "sh*t". I can't imagine how I would feel if I was working on a fangame.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:58 PM   #58
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some fan games are poorly made, I'll say that. But anyone who would use that as an excuse to write off all fan games as crap is a closed-minded fool.
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Old 12-15-2005, 01:02 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoldier
No game currently in development looks as good as UT2007, but the greater visuals present in a commercial adventure title will only enhance my playing experience. I feel fan-made games, unless remakes, are a waste of time. I'd rather invest a few dollars in TLJ, gain the superior plot and technical giblets, than waste my time on a proletarian fan-game that relies on some shoddy old engine and is filled with badly written English and piss-poor dialogue.
Let me focus on the "shoddy old engine" -point.

What do you MEAN?! Old? AGS is updated all the time! WME is updated all the time! Sludge is, too! And every other engine! And how are they "shoddy"? They're fast! They don't crash! They're easy to use for the developers! In fact SCUMM is more shoddy than AGS!

If you mean that game makers want to make their games low-res, well... It's not the engine's fault. Many developesrs prefer low-res, because it lowers the file size for internet distribution, for example. They also like the retro look. I'd like to see more high-res games, btw. AGS can handle 800*600 (at least), WME 1024*768 or higher.

And finally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoldier
I think they don't have the confidence to approach a publisher, or are flatly turned down.
...

Who would publish a low-res game these days? Who would publish an adventure game? You can clearly see that most commercial ags haven't been very succesful. And amateur game developers want to make the games free for everyone.
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Last edited by Wormsie; 12-15-2005 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 12-15-2005, 01:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agustin
So, based on 8-10 fangames you have played, you are concluding that the entire fangame community is producing crap?

Interesting.

I know of someone who had been working 3 years on a game, never gave-up and managed to release it, free, after a great deal of work. How is that less dedicated than someone being paid to do a game?

Mind you, it turns out that game made some people very happy. It was called Other Worlds. Certainly, the graphics are horrible, but it provided hours of good and free fun.

Really, you do have a face to call those games "sh*t". I can't imagine how I would feel if I was working on a fangame.
Well you are working on one, aren't you? And thanks for your input.
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