[Squinky]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Checked your profile. You made Cubert Badbone?! (wo)Man, it's the game that opened my eyes on the amateur adventure scene almost three years ago... You ought to go and work on your game instead of wasting your time in this thread.

Er, that supposed to be a compliment, not a way to make you leave.

Indeed, that would be me. And I'm tickled pink that you enjoyed it.

And what Gamespot says is the word of God. Duh.

[stuboy]

This thread seems to have angried up everyone's blood. In the meantime, here's some soothing music;

http://meteorheaven.tripod.com/Midi/Christmas/ode_to_joy.mid

And please can we distinguish between fan games and amateur games. Thank you.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by stuboy

This thread seems to have angried up everyone's blood. In the meantime, here's some soothing music;

http://meteorheaven.tripod.com/Midi/Christmas/ode_to_joy.mid

And please can we distinguish between fan games and amateur games. Thank you.

But amateur games ARE fan games! In fact, anything without OMGLENZFLARE is a fan game! Everyone with half a brain knows that!

[big brother]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

No I never have, because websites like GameSpot ensure I don't spend my money on crap.

Reviews (whether those of movies, games, or books) are the ultimate excercise in one person's subjective viewpoint. An experience will vary depending on the player's interests or even knowledge (how many of you found the Foucault reference in GTA:SA?). I'm not going to let some thirty year old reviewer with a high school education who lives in his parent's basement dictate my ultimate decision whether or not I buy a game.

And just because you've never bought a crappy professional game, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Because of the current market (the same people who watch movies for the special effects), graphics are the primary concern for any publisher. I'm guessing that you've never enjoyed a game with graphics you didn't think were good? If your argument revolves around the graphics or the technological requirements of fan games, you should revise your argument. Not everyone who sees you claim something as bad or crappy is going to automatically assume you're talking mainly about graphics (after all this forum is "adventure gamers underground"). Most adventure fan games are retro, for the reasons in my previous post (personal limitations, time, etc).

Just because you don't enjoy these games doesn't mean they're bad. That's a fallacy a lot of reviewers fall into. Just out of curiosity, what do you think of DOTT?

I think it's also funny how no one ever bashes the classics. Did Mario have bad graphics? How about Pacman? I mean, with the same technological limitations the creators faced it's possible to make much prettier graphics, but too much of the exigence is lost. The graphics weren't the point of those games.

You don't really seem to have an argument. If you dislike fan games, that's your opinion, and we can't make you change your mind. You can just go on hating them, and it's pretty pointless for you to post in here (unless a flamewar is your goal). You might as well find a forum for FPS mods and make a post telling them that mods suck and they're wasting their time...

Out of curiousity, what is your goal?

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by big brother

(personal limitations, time, etc).

Not only that but people LIKE to make games that emulate another game. If I adore VGA games I might want to create a VGa fan game to simulate the similar style to one of the comercial VGA games. And as mentioned before, theres more to gaming than graphics.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by big brother

Reviews (whether those of movies, games, or books) are the ultimate excercise in one person's subjective viewpoint. An experience will vary depending on the player's interests or even knowledge (how many of you found the Foucault reference in GTA:SA?). I'm not going to let some thirty year old reviewer with a high school education who lives in his parent's basement dictate my ultimate decision whether or not I buy a game.

And just because you've never bought a crappy professional game, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Because of the current market (the same people who watch movies for the special effects), graphics are the primary concern for any publisher. I'm guessing that you've never enjoyed a game with graphics you didn't think were good? If your argument revolves around the graphics or the technological requirements of fan games, you should revise your argument. Not everyone who sees you claim something as bad or crappy is going to automatically assume you're talking mainly about graphics (after all this forum is "adventure gamers underground"). Most adventure fan games are retro, for the reasons in my previous post (personal limitations, time, etc).

Just because you don't enjoy these games doesn't mean they're bad. That's a fallacy a lot of reviewers fall into. Just out of curiosity, what do you think of DOTT?

I think it's also funny how no one ever bashes the classics. Did Mario have bad graphics? How about Pacman? I mean, with the same technological limitations the creators faced it's possible to make much prettier graphics, but too much of the exigence is lost. The graphics weren't the point of those games.

Why should I bash the classics, which were state-of-the-art (or, I imagine) for the time they came out in?

Fan games are not bad, per se, I just don't think they're very well done and DOTT is an extremely wacky game with superb writing that has been copied too often.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

Fan games are not bad, per se

Now you're contradicting your earlier statement. (See title of thread.)

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

Why should I bash the classics, which were state-of-the-art (or, I imagine) for the time they came out in?

If you think the graphics of the classics are OK and that the games are enjoayble besides that, why make a big deal about low-res and not-always-so-well-drawn graphics anyway? Low-res games, such as DOTT, can be enjoyable, you have implied so yourself.

[big brother]

Wow, fast replies. Check my addition above.

I'm just saying, you're looking at games out of context. The fan games are NOT INTENDED to be state-of-the-art. Maybe they weren't made in the 80s or 90s, but that's what they're trying to imitate. It's about nostalgia, a reason why people will play the classics today. And yes, Mario and Pacman were state-of-the-art when they were released, but the focus was on the game not the graphics. For instance, the original Pacman didn't have eyes. Could they have given him eyes? Yes, but it was a concious decision on the part of the designers to keep the game simple.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by big brother

Out of curiousity, what is your goal?

Audio Soldier, I'd like to ask you this question as well.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Wormsie

Audio Soldier, I'd like to ask you this question as well.

I'm merely staying my beliefs and exercising my freedom of speech.

[Squinky]

So, what exactly are your beliefs, then? That classic games are good for their time, but people in 2006 should be making games using a 2006 standard, i.e. with million-dollar budgets and the like? And if games are being made in 2006 using the standards of the classic games, then they are obviously inferior and not worth playing?

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Squinky

So, what exactly are your beliefs, then? That classic games are good for their time, but people in 2006 should be making games using a 2006 standard, i.e. with million-dollar budgets and the like? And if games are being made in 2006 using the standards of the classic games, then they are obviously inferior and not worth playing?

There's nothing wrong with 2006 games using the standards of "classic" games, but fan games never remotely feel like 2006 games, and never manage to re-enact the magic of a "classic".

[ART_Adventures]

Speaking of games, I hope to release a small, free puzzle game soon. Not Meet The Creeper (which is due to be released later, and is commcercial), but another small game I've made in my spare time Hope you will enjoy. I shall release details soon.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by ART_Adventures

Speaking of games, I hope to release a small, free puzzle game soon. Not Meet The Creeper (which is due to be released later, and is commcercial), but another small game I've made in my spare time Hope you will enjoy. I shall release details soon.

Is this automated spam?

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

There's nothing wrong with 2006 games using the standards of "classic" games, but fan games never remotely feel like 2006 games, and never manage to re-enact the magic of a "classic".

What do you mean by "feel like 2006 games"? Aren't you contradicting the sentence you wrote above?

As for re-enacting the magic of a "classic", I suppose that is the point where it all boils down to personal taste.

[42yoMan]

Just out of curiosity, what 'fan games'/'amateur games' are you refering to? I've played many fan games that give me that feeling of playing classic LA games for the first time ("5 Days a Stranger" and it's sequel are two in particular) and I've found that I've thoroughly enjoyed some amateur adventure games much more than recent commercial games...

Admittedly there are some games that completely ruin the spirit of the games they're paying homage to (I've played some dreadful Monkey Island tributes), but occasionally there are some well made games that can actually improve upon the story. I had a great time playing "M:I-2, LeChuck's Revenge", and loved the way that it filled in some of the gaps in the plot as well as creating a very clever parody of Mission Impossible, not to meantion the ludicrous multiple ending (got to love the Scooby Doo and the Seinfeld Ending)... Also, one of my favourite amateur adventure games is Cirque De Zale, which plays a biting satire towards typical adventure cliches with witty dialogue and some great humour.

I think you may have a rather stereotyped view of what amateur and fan adventures are really like. Admittedly there are quite a few bad games, but don't let it shallow your view of the many great amateur games available.

I'd recommend that you check out some more games and you might just be impressed. Just because the graphics may have a 'retro' feel to them doesn't mean they're bad. Just imagine that your playing an original Lucas Art's game again for the first time, and don't let your predudice against fan games get in the way...

[JohnGreenArt]

AudioSoldier doesn't have an opinion about fan/amatuer games, he has a prejudice against them.

[Squinky]

Well, in that case, I have a prejudice against rap music.

Seriously, though, I think that statement was out of line. If Audio doesn't like amateur adventure games, that's okay. Given the selection of games he's already played, it's quite unlikely that he'd like anything else we amateur developers have to offer. And (despite not clearly outlining his arguments at times, and quoting an entire person's post when he's actually only replying to a teeny tiny part of it) he's got a right to voice his opinion, even if most of us plainly disagree with it.

I mean, it's not like all the amateur adventure games in the world are going to spontaneously combust as a result of someone declaring that they're poo, now is it?

[AudioSoldier]

It's a pity people who agree with me don't post here...*sings "Lonely"*

[ART_Adventures]

I don't agree with quite a number of things you say about amateur/indie adventures, but I respect your point of view. We all have different views on things and it's nice to hear them.

For me, there are amateur games I both like and dislike, just like any other types of games. In reality, I could sit here all day and have a friendly chat about whether or not fan-games are any good. But I'm not going to because, for me, it's largely pointless. The reason is because though I hope people will enjoy the games I make, I won't overly worry if they don't. I like to hear constructive criticism and I like to hear people's opinions. But, if someone doesn't like my games, then my advice would be not to play them.