[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by Squinky

Seriously, though, I think that statement was out of line. If Audio doesn't like amateur adventure games, that's okay. Given the selection of games he's already played, it's quite unlikely that he'd like anything else we amateur developers have to offer. And (despite not clearly outlining his arguments at times, and quoting an entire person's post when he's actually only replying to a teeny tiny part of it) he's got a right to voice his opinion, even if most of us plainly disagree with it.

True. But it sounds as if he's trying to pick a fight, starting a "fangames are horrible" discussion in threads about new releases.

[Dale Baldwin]

That shouldn't be an issue anymore.

[Dasilva]

I think we should end this conversation we already let it drag on for thousands of pages, Audio Soldier thinks fan games are bad. And we all think fan games can be good and are good for the community. (I think so anyway).

So lets move on with our lives.

[Karmillo]

Ive seen bigger threads than this

I think it should be left in, the underground forum has been allot more active now

[Dasilva]

I'm not asking for it to be locked. If only Audio Soldier would make some clear statements, but not that we could change his mind, he even seems to hate most Adventure comercial games anyway.

[bigjko]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

It's a pity people who agree with me don't post here...*sings "Lonely"*

Oh, cry me a river. I'd like to quote myself (which is pretty sad in itself )

Originally Posted by bigjko

I don't like fan games, at least the ones released so far, any more than you do. But you seem to have something personal against them, posting in newly started fan game threads things that, despite what you may think, starts flame wars. I don't disagree with you there.

You seem bent on making this look more like a flame-war, and less like a friendly discussion. I mean, obviously the discussion started out in flames, but it was starting to get on track. Then you insist on stating how much you love money and the fact that you can spend it. Who gives a damn? That has nothing to do with the topic. Fan games are not bad because you like money. They're bad because they rehash the same old stuff we've already played fifteen years ago. And they rarely, if ever, do it well.

DISCLAIMER: I'm making the distinction between fan games and amateur/indie games.

[Squinky]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

I think it should be left in, the underground forum has been allot more active now

Agreed. And considering that the underground forum is the only one I bother to check regularly (considering I don't play all that many games, but I'm always in the middle of making one), this bodes quite well for me.

[JohnGreenArt]

Has AudioSoldier made the distinction between "fan games" and "amateur/indie games"? I don't recall him doing so. From what I gather, he's said that any game not made by a team of paid professionals and available for purchase in a store will be a bad game.

Squinky, saying you're prejudiced against rap music is not the same. If you were a fan of rap music, but only rap music from professional musicians who's music you could buy in stores, and you hated any rap music by any amateurs or street performers or the likes, THEN it would be the same. AudioSoldier claims to be a fan of adventure games, but not games by fans.
If you were a fan of rap music, but not rap music by fans, THEN you would share a similar prejudice.

I imagine you're a fan of some music, but not rap music as a whole.
If AudioSoldier was a fan of video games, but not adventure games as a whole (professional OR fan/amatuer) THEN he would not have a prejudice.

[AudioSoldier]

I'll lose my "prejudice" if I play a fangame/amateur title I like.

I'm not a fan of the genre as a whole right now either; Still Life was decent, Bone was quirky, but there's been nothing riveting since the Grim Fandango glory days.

And don’t start listing games that are good and that I should like.

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

I'll lose my "prejudice" if I play a fangame/amateur title I like.

I'm not a fan of the genre as a whole right now either; Still Life was decent, Bone was quirky, but there's been nothing riveting since the Grim Fandango glory days.

And don’t start listing games that are good and that I should like.

So what about you? will you play The Silver Lining when it comes out? you have to admit from the trailer and screenshots its looks pretty profesional.

AGD Interactive is the shit.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

So what about you? will you play The Silver Lining when it comes out? you have to admit from the trailer and screenshots its looks pretty profesional.

I'll play it and I'll admit it looks fairly professional. Yet, the animation will probably be fairly substandard which will serve to pull down the aesthetics of the game considerably.

[Karmillo]

Thats my worry about these Fan/Amature games, that the character animation will be bad or the characters dont fit into the backgrounds

[Wormsie]

Have you played Discworld Noir? It had the worst animation ever. And it wasn't an amateur effort.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Wormsie

Have you played Discworld Noir? It had the worst animation ever. And it wasn't an amateur effort.

So? That's not my point. It's like saying a professional baseball player makes a mistake. True, but the amateur is continually blundering.

[Dasilva]

I think its quite funny how we always prove AS wrong, yet he still comes up with more petty excuses. lol. Please continue...

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

I think its quite funny how we always prove AS wrong, yet he still comes up with more petty excuses. lol. Please continue...

Fortunately the rest of us are mature about it.

Edit: Excuses? I've made my point, I'm being asked questions, and I'm responding.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

So? That's not my point. It's like saying a professional baseball player makes a mistake. True, but the amateur is continually blundering.

My point was that you are criticizing Silver Lining's graphics on the basis of bad animation, claiming that it's due to the fact that the project is an amateur game, when in fact there are MANY "professional" commercial games with bad animation, including Discworld Noir.

[Karmillo]

I dont think he was proved wrong, and i didnt see him criticizing anything...

What he said was was he had doubts about the animation, not that it most defanetly will be crap but that he didnt have much hope for it having good animation.

[42yoMan]

Well I think it's quite obvious that The Silver Lining's animation won't be too great, as is every amateur adventure game (Especially those using 3D Models). But I know that most of us are willing to be resonable enough to realise this and appreciate the effort put into the project and be thankful for it.

After all, every game has faults. Deus Ex is still one of my favourite game of all time even though the combat was dull, the animations were wooden and the AI was stupid, but the gripping storyline and the open endedness made up for any issue I had with the combat. Gabriel Knight 3 is still one of my all time favourite adventure games, even though it had some god awfull illogical puzzles and suffered badly from the fake, over the top voice acting by Tim Curray.

The fact is, most games (Amature and commercial games alike) suffer from some problems that stop it from being truly great. The fact is most of the time we are able to overlook look them and dig deeper to find a rich, fulfilling experience. And even though The Silver Lining may be slightly dated in technical areas, chances are the writing quality and puzzle design may prove more satifying and recent commercial efforts.

Then again maybe not. I guess we'll find out when the game's released