[Fien]

Yeah, of course you tried all of them before you decided you hated any and all of them.

[mart]

Here's one: I rather liked Limbo of The Lost.

[Annacat]

I liked The Forgotten: It Begins.

[Luther10]

Three godly adventure games I still haven't got a chance to play...

- The Dig
- Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
- Beneath a Steel Sky

Now why did I skip these titles when they were first released???

[Jannik]

Originally Posted by zobraks

I don't understand people like this guy: if you don't like something the easiest way to deal with it is to skip it. After reading the quote I got the impression someone had wringed Mr. Walker's ear(s) in order to make him play Myst. I see no other explanation.

If you knew the writing style of Johnny Walker and/or of the other regulars on the Rock, Paper, Shotgun site, I don't think you would say that - in other words, sarcasm is common in his articles

The first paragraph in his Myst retrospective (the other quote is from the same article) should explain everything:

"I absolutely blame Myst. I blame it for everything. Everything bad about gaming, every hateful puzzle, every stupid cut-scene, every dreadful piece of writing. I don’t care if any of it is Myst’s fault, I still blame Myst. I blame it for the recession, I blame it for X Factor, I blame it for the war in Iraq."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...e-myst-article

[zobraks]

Originally Posted by Jannik

If you knew the writing style of Johnny Walker and/or of the other regulars on the Rock, Paper, Shotgun site, I don't think you would say that

Probably, but quoted as he was (out of context?) Mr. Walker deserved exactly what I said.

Originally Posted by Jannik

The first paragraph in his Myst retrospective (the other quote is from the same article) should explain everything:

"I absolutely blame Myst. I blame it for everything. Everything bad about gaming, every hateful puzzle, every stupid cut-scene, every dreadful piece of writing. I don’t care if any of it is Myst’s fault, I still blame Myst. I blame it for the recession, I blame it for X Factor, I blame it for the war in Iraq."

Now I'm (even more) stumped. What's the point in faking hatred for Myst? If this guy wanted to point out there's too much criticism of Myst around he did it in a bad way IMHO (I don't like what he did).

Edit: Fien' s post made me read Mr. Walker's review of Myst and now that I'm sure he wasn't faking hatred for Myst I can only second her opinion:

Originally Posted by Fien

Mr. Walker hates Myst. And he hates it for all the wrong reasons.

P.S. I've never visited Eurogamer before since I've heard people out there don't like adventure games.
P.P.S. Mr. Walker's review reminded me of Harry Callahans immortal quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Jannik

If you knew the writing style of Johnny Walker and/or of the other regulars on the Rock, Paper, Shotgun site, I don't think you would say that - in other words, sarcasm is common in his articles

I wouldn't call it sarcasm. His style is based on the hyperbole.

The first paragraph in his Myst retrospective (the other quote is from the same article) should explain everything:

"I absolutely blame Myst. I blame it for everything. Everything bad about gaming, every hateful puzzle, every stupid cut-scene, every dreadful piece of writing. I don’t care if any of it is Myst’s fault, I still blame Myst. I blame it for the recession, I blame it for X Factor, I blame it for the war in Iraq."

Beats me what this paragraph is supposed to explain that wasn't already there in the ones I quoted. Are you saying Mr. Walker actually LIKES Myst?

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!

Sorry about that... I guess I allowed Mr. Walker's terrible style and incredibly biased, spoiler-infested reviews get to me. Just thinking about the many *facts* he got wrong in his review of Edna and Harvey makes me see red.

Mr. Walker hates Myst. And he hates it for all the wrong reasons. Period.

[Gonchi]

I think this last page shows why we don't confess our sins publicly.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Gonchi

I think this last page shows why we don't confess our sins publicly.

I've decided that you didn't really do what you said you did, Gonchi. You sometimes just like to provoke people. Now, please don't disappoint granny and stay away from all Mystian games.

[Jannik]

zobraks/Fien:
Nothing should, in my opinion, be judged without context. But I guess I partly fell into that trap myself, since I didn't read the full article - sorry about that, I'm a bit tired today

I was assuming it was a typical Walker article, which it only is to a degree: He clearly doesn't like the game, but he is also clearly using sarcasm/dry humor/dark humor (take your pick) to "enhance" his message, as is normal for him (and Rock, Paper, Shotgun).

And it's a rant mixed with an opinion piece - he is in his right to choose any style he likes, and rants are typically a bit provocative. I wouldn't take it too seriously

Actually Walker used to be one of the biggest adventure game fans among journalists, but has stated he doesn't like many new adventure games, for different reasons. That doesn't mean I always agree with him, and I think some of his Myst criticism is a bit off. I'm only mentioning it since some people on this site seem to think he hates the genre, and he clearly doesn't.

EDIT: Adjusted the first paragraph for clarification.

[Iznogood]

Where i come from there is an say "Exaggeration promotes understanding" (Not sure i translated it properly, but I'm sure you get the point)

And walker is clearly both exaggerating and being sarcastic, but he has some good points.

I too believe that Myst is at the root at everything that is wrong with adventure games.

IMHO Myst is the Original Sin

Originally Posted by Gonchi

- I hated Myst so much, that whenever I used to come across it or one of its clones on a store shelf, I would move them to another section or hide them behind boxes of other genres.

That might be at bit excessive, but totally justified and not really a big sin.

[harald]

I'm biting hard on my tongue (or rather, stapling my fingers to the table or something) in order to not start a flame war regarding Myst. I think Myst is a great game and I'm definitely not ashamed of that, nor do I think it's a sin to like it. Same goes for Escape from Monkey Island.

I've been trying for weeks to come up with anything to contribute to this thread. I don't have any good ones... Maybe I peek at walkthroughs a bit too often. There's an unforgettable classic or two that I haven't played. (The Last Express comes to mind.)

Actually, there is one thing: I don't like interactive fiction. You know, text adventures. I consider myself a retro gamer and in many cases I prefer games that are as old as I am. And I love a good story presented in good prose, so those games should be perfect. It's just too bad that most of them, with the Zork trilogy in the lead, are really shittily designed (excuse my prose). Steve Meretzky and Dave Lebling may be brilliant minds, but they should have left the puzzle design to someone else. Bring your best pitchforks.

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by Arial Type

With goblins on your avatar... How could you

Yes well, I've given them a rest for now. And as much as I didn't like Gobliins 3, one bad game out of a series of four is better than most franchises manage.

[Datadog]

Originally Posted by Iznogood

I too believe that Myst is at the root at everything that is wrong with adventure games.

I'm not a big fan of Myst, myself (actually I despise it) but I can't bring myself to call it the root of all adventure gaming's problems. More than anything, it created a sub-genre of adventuring games and that's it. I haven't seen influence from Myst in any other type of game other than first-person adventures.

I think the real "original sin" of adventure gaming was the invention of the phrase "You can't do that." This sentence alone started the trend of shooting down the player's ideas until it became the industry standard for the genre.

Case in point: here's a partially-remembered transcript from me showing "Tales of Monkey Island" to my roommate the other day.

ROOMMATE: This game is too hard!
ME: It's the first puzzle.
ROOMMATE: How do I get to the other ship? I want to kill this dude with my sword!
ME: You can't yet.
ROOMMATE: And I can't stab the girl?
ME: She's your wife.
ROOMMATE: Why doesn't Bush-Bush know how to hit things with swords?
ME: Sorry. This isn't Skyrim.
ROOMMATE: Skyrim? Do you have Skyrim? Let's play Skyrim!

Another of my adventure gaming sins: talking about how awesome these games are to people who will never get past the first screen.

[Boblebad]

I was 16 when Phantasmagoria first came out, and throughout the entire game I was looking for ways to get Adrienne undressed.

[rtrooney]

Originally Posted by Datadog

I haven't seen influence from Myst in any other type of game other than first-person adventures.

You can't be serious! The number of games that tried to hitch their wagon to the Myst scenario is enormous. Amber, Shivers 1&2, Lighthouse, Timelapse, Reah, and on and on. I personally didn't like Myst, or any of the other Miller brothers Myst-ique games. But there is no question that they had an tremendous influence.

[inm8#2]

Originally Posted by Boblebad

I was 16 when Phantasmagoria first came out, and throughout the entire game I was looking for ways to get Adrienne undressed.

My friend and I watched that Prologue/intro sequence so many times for that brief glimpse of her naked in bed.

[Datadog]

Originally Posted by rtrooney

You can't be serious! The number of games that tried to hitch their wagon to the Myst scenario is enormous. Amber, Shivers 1&2, Lighthouse, Timelapse, Reah, and on and on. I personally didn't like Myst, or any of the other Miller brothers Myst-ique games. But there is no question that they had an tremendous influence.

But you just named a bunch of a first-person adventures. I'm aware of the million Myst clones out there - but 3rd-person adventures on their own still mostly stuck to the traditional formulas.

Although I shouldn't say that. I can think of "The Neverhood" as one example of a 3rd-person adventure where you just walk around a strange world pulling levers and barely interacting with anyone. I guess there's a little Myst influence there. Otherwise, a lot of my favorites have been left untouched.

On-Topic Sin: I did sort of enjoy the pointlessness of the Myst parody "Pyst." I mean, come on - it had John Goodman in it.