[tabacco]

Well, she still basically sounds like April, but she's definitely got a bit of the world-weary sound going.

[fov]

And Crow's voice is back, too.

*shudders*

[Dasilva]

I love Crow.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Litrick

But i do think it is a pity developers have decided games like grim fandango, TLJ, monkey island etc etc, are to boring/limited and we may never again see games like that again (with high production values that is). Because it is not true, otherwise most of us wouldnt be here visiting this site...

I agree, if they have to change the game so much because "traditional adventures" are boring and crap, isnt that like saying the first game is crap?

And so on.

It's always worth remembering that with that kind of attitude some of your favourite games (and the army of clones that eventually followed..) wouldn't even have come to be in the first place.

[Christian IV]

Lacrima, I think your points are very well made, and interesting to boot. April and her development was the main theme or at least one of them, in LJ, and I really enjoyed it as well. There was a refreshing newness and realness to all of LJ and the way that the game expressed itself, the music, visuals, excellent very engrossing dialog and the way the characters and the story were filled with nice surprises, that kept the player engrossed and enjoying the whole thing, the puzzles did not dominate but they did control the flow and allow the opening of the new segments.

The three characters in the new story will be indeed a challenge. I am not sure how they will develop things, and my fears are that they will go too far in some dark direction, for darkness and biker punk chic seem to be affecting many of the major game releases over the past 6 years or so and I have zero tolerance for this banal junk. I am hesitant to wholeheartedly enbrace the images I have seen in the promo for the main characters, they look a bit like hookers to be honest. But maybe that is some sort of Manga effect. One of them main things I loved about Longest Journey was the refreshing europeaness, the northern light and the clean clear and strong imagery, even the darksome parts of Stark were well done and not depressing or overly antagonistic.

I hope that they do a great job, and your points were very well made. It has been a long time since a really innovative and strong adventure game has been released, and one that is not just a darksom crime story, I am very tired of those. We can remain hopeful I feel and hope for not only this game but for the genre. Changes like the 3D realization are part of the new directions, and the action sequences, but I hope that someone will remember that point and click is just fine as it allows beautiful backgrounds and much can be done with it, and it lowers the production costs tremendously. There are millions out here who want them and the marketing guys need to get their heads out of the punk scene and into reality again.

We can remain hopeful and I am. Thanks for the hard hard work Ragnar and the patience. We appreciate it very much!

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Christian IV

I am hesitant to wholeheartedly enbrace the images I have seen in the promo for the main characters, they look a bit like hookers to be honest.

I don´t know if you´ve had the time to catch up on the recent topics in the forum, but reading this quote of yours makes me link to this thread where we discussed female and male characters in games. Especially the stereotype females.
http://forums.adventuregamers.com/sh...ad.php?t=14037

[RaMa]

Originally Posted by Christian IV

The three characters in the new story will be indeed a challenge. I am not sure how they will develop things, and my fears are that they will go too far in some dark direction, for darkness and biker punk chic seem to be affecting many of the major game releases over the past 6 years or so and I have zero tolerance for this banal junk. I am hesitant to wholeheartedly enbrace the images I have seen in the promo for the main characters, they look a bit like hookers to be honest. But maybe that is some sort of Manga effect.

They might look that way to some people (not to me though), but I can assure you they don't act that way.
April is still April, only with less faith in the world and as little faith in herself as before. She's changed alright, but there are some parts in the game - at least from what I played - where the old April did emerge.
Zoë also feels as real as April did in TLJ. You can really feel that she struggles with the fact that she doesn't really know what she wants to do with her life. This is something many players will be able to relate to, I think.
I haven't played much with Kian, so I won't say anything about him. First impressions don't always tell the truth about people.

Originally Posted by Christian IV

One of them main things I loved about Longest Journey was the refreshing europeaness, the northern light and the clean clear and strong imagery, even the darksome parts of Stark were well done and not depressing or overly antagonistic.

It's still there, although I wouldn't call all of it European. Cassablanca, for example, really comes to life in the first chapter of the game. Zoë's descriptions of certain area's or people really helped with that, as did April's in TLJ. And the audio helped a great deal too. Plus the graphical part of course .

Originally Posted by Christian IV

There are millions out here who want them and the marketing guys need to get their heads out of the punk scene and into reality again.

I won't swear on that. I do believe that there are still many adventure gamers in the world, but I don't think a game would get a good enough profit if only they buy it.

Besides, it's not only about selling copies, but also about trying something new. How can games progress if nobody tries something new?

[CrimsonBlue]

I just bought the DVD version of Den Lengste Reisen today (norwegian version of TLJ), just so I could play it again without any hassle on my XP infused PC. Already have the original retail version (4 cds), but this is much more convenient. Besides, this way I can seal the original box and store it in my collection.

[Christian IV]

Lena thanks for the link to that great topic on gender aspects, some great thinking going on over there, and right on what my concerns are, i will remain very very hopeful re all of this, for I really respect Ragnar and hope for the very best. I am glad to hear, Rama that the characters are not supericial and have the depth and dimension that April in LJ had. I am looking forward to the graphical realizations too, I have enjoyed some of the screen shots very much and FunCom has such a fine history of great great graphical settings, I am itching to see the final game. I suppose my hopes for revival in adventure genre may be overly romantic, but I do think that as a mainstream of history, advnetures have always had a high place in literature of any time and I think it is important for games to not become marginalized by overly specialized age and subject topics, there are so many people of older generations now coming on line and learning computers, my father of 88 just sent me his first e mail a while ago, and that was a miracle!...So I remain hopeful that gaming and game design and future directions will retain diversity AND include full high quality and high production value graphic adventure games that are Not JUST all puzzles and NOT just all action, but a nice mix of those and whatever new directions the bright young designers and games people come up with.

[Spiwak]

Plus you have to remember that the computer generation is still young (not until maybe 10 years ago did everyone have a computer that I knew)...and it's become such a big part of our lives that I can't imagine we'd suddenly stop playing games when we get older. The whole "video games are for 14-year-old-boys" mentality will have to die eventually when the current computer/gaming generation grows up but doesn't quit.

But I wouldn't get your hopesup too high on the romanticized future for adventures. I can't imagine them becoming a major force in the gaming world like they used to be when computers couldn't handle action as well as they can now.

[Christian IV]

You are right , I agree re the cultural view of computer games evolving as the generations age, I myself did not even begin to experience them until
some seven years ago when my own research and development began in the CGI world, having been in a creative profession for 35 years in 2D, and my appreciation and enjoyment of the games literature of all genres but especially adventure and story based ones has grown immesurably,

re the future, I wrestle with the same doubts you express myself, saying on the one hand, there is no way we will ever return to the halycon days of
Sierra and Westwood, and the others, in the glory days of Adventure games and the serial releases, and yet on the other hand, tales and story telling have been part of culture and human history for all of recorded history, and I feel in my heart that in time, the millions will tire of the endless banal trivial and increasingly moronic productions of hollywood, and TV, which get worse and worse each year and will turn to CGI for entertainment in ways that currently many age groups do not, and the skills and abilities of the full fledged game development companies will see a profit once again in the genre that has such promise, the interactive full graphical environmentally based story based production, game, story, whatever you want to call it.
As yet, few have tapped some of the potential say for re creating in full movement and 3D historical periods.....full simulations with fully interactive modeling and movement and in game character gen, and multiple versioning with branching story trees that morph as the player advances, yet with a historical parameter. the possiblities are immense and endless...and no one has really tried this yet.

So I remain open to the possiblity that we may see yet again new territory and beautiful productions released again.......as Longest Journey was in its time and Dreamfall may well be now, and future releases can be as well.

[Orange Brat]

New Tornquist interview at Gamasutra...it's the main item today:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...odard_01.shtml

Gamasutra: Are adventure games dead?

Ragnar: Adventure games as we knew them are dead, yes. But adventure games as a sort of "focus on the worlds, the characters, the setting" and variety of gameplay, definitely not. I consider games like Shenmue... I consider them adventure games.

Gamasutra: Shenmue didn't do very well commercially...

Ragnar: Damn you and your logic! Damn you! Okay bad example. Silent Hill then. Those are, to me, adventure games because they're about exploring spaces and not necessarily just combat. I think adventure... even in the old days adventure was a name that encompassed a lot of different games... In the early King's Quest games you had direct control, you had combat. In Police Quest games... it eventually became mostly point-and-click with no combat and was very restrictive. A lot of adventure fans are still locked in that mind set but I think they're opening up. I think the community has warmed to Dreamfall and now they're all really excited. So I think there's room for adventure games, it's just not going to be adventure games as we know them. And actually a lot of modern games have adopted characteristcs that were considered "adventure" like RPGs and the Grand Theft Auto games.

[Litrick]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

And so on.

It's always worth remembering that with that kind of attitude some of your favourite games (and the army of clones that eventually followed..) wouldn't even have come to be in the first place.

True, we need things to progress. However it doesnt mean we need to forget about what we have enjoyed in the past...

As i said, if these old adventures are so awful and we need to progress on so badly. Why are all of us here in the first place, and why are we in a thread about a sequel to one of these old crap traditional games?

Its because they are not awful... progression is good, be inventive yes, but at the same time, if it aint broke dont fix it...

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Litrick

True, we need things to progress. However it doesnt mean we need to forget about what we have enjoyed in the past...

But we haven't forgotten. Look at almost all the adventure games coming out and the recent ones. They mimic what we enjoyed in the past. If you think about it, unconventional adventures like Dreamfall and Indigo Prophecy are STILL unusual within this genre.

As i said, if these old adventures are so awful and we need to progress on so badly. Why are all of us here in the first place, and why are we in a thread about a sequel to one of these old crap traditional games?

But remember, this sequel is on many levels an entirely different kind of game. Its main lineage is the continuation of the story from the first game, but for the most part that's where it stops.

Its because they are not awful... progression is good, be inventive yes, but at the same time, if it aint broke dont fix it...

Again, many adventure game devs and publishers don't think it's broke. Wouldn't that explain why we keep seeing the same gameplay and story conventions over and over, but minus the quality, originality, and inventiveness of the best games from years ago?

[Litrick]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

But we haven't forgotten. Look at almost all the adventure games coming out and the recent ones. They mimic what we enjoyed in the past. If you think about it, unconventional adventures like Dreamfall and Indigo Prophecy are STILL unusual within this genre.



But remember, this sequel is on many levels an entirely different kind of game. Its main lineage is the continuation of the story from the first game, but for the most part that's where it stops.



Again, many adventure game devs and publishers don't think it's broke. Wouldn't that explain why we keep seeing the same gameplay and story conventions over and over, but minus the quality, originality, and inventiveness of the best games from years ago?

Yes the adventure games coming out mimic those of the past. Every adventure game must contain certain elements which are similar otherwise they wouldnt be adventure games. and yes we have games coming out in the classic style, runaway 2, bone for example. However, look at the two people many in this forum regard to be the best adventure game creators of the past, Tim Schafer and Ragnar, both have inderectly stated they think classic adventures are obsolete. They are correct, from a financial standpoint... and that is what i think is sad. That is the way the industry is going, the "classic adventures are boring, move on people, you are not allowed to enjoy them anymore, dont you know they are boring?" attitude. Read gamespots review of scratches for example...

[insane_cobra]

They're not boring, just like text adventures (or interactive fiction, if you will) are not boring. But new gaming paradigms have arisen and most people found out they enjoyed those new kinds of games more. Maybe it's just a passing fling, maybe people will eventually tire of it and return to traditional point & click adventures. But maybe, and I think that's the case, those new compositions just speak more to the human condition, people instinctively adopt what they feel is closer to what they are, the way they think. What we're witnessing is a refinement of adventure games, not their degradation.

[Legolas813]

Originally Posted by Orange Brat

New Tornquist interview at Gamasutra...it's the main item today:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20...odard_01.shtml

He mentioned Shenmue! I haven't played the original, but I do love my copy of Shenmue II (plus DVD movie) on Xbox. And I bought the game for only $5. Go figure!

[Litrick]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

They're not boring, just like text adventures (or interactive fiction, if you will) are not boring. But new gaming paradigms have arisen and most people found out they enjoyed those new kinds of games more. Maybe it's just a passing fling, maybe people will eventually tire of it and return to traditional point & click adventures. But maybe, and I think that's the case, those new compositions just speak more to the human condition, people instinctively adopt what they feel is closer to what they are, the way they think. What we're witnessing is a refinement of adventure games, not their degradation.

yep, but sometimes you just want good old vanilla, when all you can get is Double chocolate with cream...

[RaMa]

True. Too bad that's only sometimes though.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

And so, what do we do about it?