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Old 10-21-2005, 10:48 AM   #81
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Hope you don't mind if I respectfully disagree with you, Flux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
The man is fantastic. He's an outrageous, funny, healthy person.
No doubt he's a cool guy to hang out with. But most people criticize him because he hasn't been very responsibile, not because of his personality. Remember, people liked him a lot back when Bad Brain first entered the limelight, but a cool attitude doesn't excuse you from having responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Flux
I think it says a lot about the industry that everyone's getting so excited because a CEO is just saying exactly how it is in a blog.
More openness is great (interesting example: Greg Costikyan over at Manifesto Games), but some things you just have to keep to yourself. His personal correspondence with LucasArts or Bill Tiller are things he should keep to himself, if he wants to run a serious business at all. I probably wouldn't want to negotiate with Bad Brain knowing my correspondence could be posted publicly a couple of months later.

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Originally Posted by Flux
Let me put it like this: do you honestly think that the little companies can be just as professional and machine-like as the big ones?
Wait, you equate professional with machine-like? Ouch. Please get a new perspective on professionality. Okay: yes, I honestly think little companies can be just as professional as the big ones, because professionality is a quality, not a quantity. A company run by a single person can be more professional than one that employs a dozen. It depends entirely on their attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
If anything, this sort of thing came from inexperience, not out of scheming.
That I agree with.

If you get a chance in the future to get some first-hand experience at a medium or large company, I think you should try it out. You put some pretty stark contrast between the 'free-minded, creative, skilled, awesome charming little indie developers' and the 'huge international money grubbing capitalist corporate monsters that don't care about games'. Maybe more nuance would be better? There's a lot of companies trying to constantly balance commercial considerations with artistic ones, and to my mind that commands more respect than being some kind of game development unicorn that doesn't get their games published.

Last edited by Marek; 10-21-2005 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:03 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
Aren't we all despising publishers like EA for not having a heart for gaming and pooping out uninspired sequels? Then why the hell aren't we supporting a company that -if still finding its way- is extremely enthusiastic and genuinely caring about games (i.e., NOT in it for the money)?
1) If he's not in it for the money, how is he running a business? Does he expect to just eventually run out of money, close up shop, say "that was fun?" and move onto the next goofy rich kid activity? Does he expect to manipulate crazy tax loopholes to profit from a string of financial losses, Hollywood studio- (or, more appropriately, Uwe Boll-)style?

2) If he's not in it for the money, why couldn't he meet the needs of Autumn Moon, who needed a modest investment*, and a major partner and ally. Instead, they got little to no money, and Wolfgang saying things like "we should have fans make the demo instead of pay Autumn Moon to do it because it would be cheaper."

It seems to me that money is a big issue with this company.

*(modest in proportion to every other commercial game of the size Autumn Moon was making -- a size Wolfgang agreed to fund then backed out on or at least stalled on and balked at for the good part of a year, I might add)


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If anything, this sort of thing came from inexperience, not out of scheming.
Agreed 100%. See Marek's above post, which I agree with as well
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Old 10-21-2005, 12:00 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terramax
Name me a company that hasn't talked out of its ass once in a while. Even the biggest publishers in the industry make fake promises of 'Being on schedule' and promising a 'revolutionary new way to gaming', etc
You're kidding me, right?
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Old 10-22-2005, 12:36 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
1) If he's not in it for the money, how is he running a business? Does he expect to just eventually run out of money, close up shop, say "that was fun?" and move onto the next goofy rich kid activity? Does he expect to manipulate crazy tax loopholes to profit from a string of financial losses, Hollywood studio- (or, more appropriately, Uwe Boll-)style?

2) If he's not in it for the money, why couldn't he meet the needs of Autumn Moon, who needed a modest investment*, and a major partner and ally. Instead, they got little to no money, and Wolfgang saying things like "we should have fans make the demo instead of pay Autumn Moon to do it because it would be cheaper."

It seems to me that money is a big issue with this company.
Just because money isn't a motivating factor, certainly doesn't mean that he has large amounts of money to throw around (or, perhaps even as much money as hed' like to have to throw around), and isn't concerned about breaking even.
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:36 AM   #85
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I really do not believe this guy has the money to fund any serious game developments.. I just cannot trust him.. It's a pity Autumn Moon got caught up in all that
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:44 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flux
But also cut the man some slack. If you want every decision tippy-top and churned out by a board of executives -if you want professionalism to the point that it loses every charm- then by all means, go to the hojillion-dollar megacorps. But if not, if you can see the distinct charm of imperfection and beginning enthusiasm, you may want to give Bad Brain a tip of your hat instead of wiping your feet on it.
Wolfgang is all "enthusiasm, and ideas." You cannot produce any product of quality, without a lot of thought, PREPARATION, PLANNING, hard work and focus. In my estimation wolfgang has failed on all counts. I could start a game company tomorrow and do exactly what this guy has done. If you want to sell games to your audience you must build up a level of respect and trust with them. Wolfgang has none, he should quit now and save himself the embarassment.
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Old 10-22-2005, 06:18 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HieroHero
Wolfgang has none, he should quit now and save himself the embarassment.
Hmmm, I'd rather give him a chance now that I've seen and played the Whispered World demo. Screenshots for the Orgastic 4 look neat too, so that makes two games I hope to hear more from in the future.

So yeah, I'm willing to wait, and hold my judgement just a little longer.

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Old 10-22-2005, 12:07 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
Wolfgang saying things like "we should have fans make the demo instead of pay Autumn Moon to do it because it would be cheaper."
He really said that?
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Old 10-22-2005, 08:39 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
...Wolfgang saying things like "we should have fans make the demo instead of pay Autumn Moon to do it because it would be cheaper."
I've kept a fairly close eye on Bad Brain Entertainment and Autumn Moon Entertainment ever since it was announced that they were going to try and team up for AVS, and I never heard anything even remotely like that. Could you please give a source for that quote please? Because even though I think Mr. Kierdorf has said some blatantly stupid things (as in, talking about things publicly that he shouldn't, way before he should), that doesn't really seem in character with him. His problem is that he's over-enthusiastic, not that he's an idiot, and frankly, he'd have to be an idiot to come up with the idea of a fan-made demo for a professionally made game. It's counter-intuitive, counter-productive, and just plain stupid. I mean, a fan-made game will be completely different than a professionally made one, no matter how enthusiastic the fans are. Heck, it could turn out that the fan-made demo is better than the professionally-made game (just look at 3rd person shooters and fan-designed levels, it can happen, although with the talent behind AME I doubt it would happen in this case), and where would the company be then? Stuck with fans going, "We could have made a better game than this. Heck, we did." Plus, to have a fan-made demo, they'd have to get the story for the demo from AME anyway, plus character likenesses, character voices, script, software... basically AME would have to make all the components for the demo, then give it to the fans to assemble, which would be the relatively cheap and easy part, unless the components were buggy. And if the fan-made demo was garbage, BBE would have shot themselves in the foot, since anybody who played the garbage fan-made demo would be extremely hesitant to buy the completed game.

I repeat, Mr. Kierdorf would have to be an idiot to think a fan-made demo made sense, nevermind that it would be a good idea, and he hasn't struck me as being an idiot so far, although I'm guessing some people would be willing to argue with me over that.
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:30 PM   #90
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I have to admit, it really sounds like something he might actually say, but it sounds to me as though it would be more like one of his many lame jokes he makes where he gets too excited about trying to please the adventure fans and just says insane stuff. But I don't know, the quote is taken out of context. It could very well be that he seriously meant it, though, but without the context, it's impossible to tell. Honestly, it was probably just a stupid joke. We all know he's made plenty of those.
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Old 10-23-2005, 05:45 AM   #91
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I don't think it was ever widespread public knowledge, but what Jake says is absolutely true (as implausible as it sounds).
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Old 10-23-2005, 06:47 AM   #92
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And where did he say that?
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Old 10-23-2005, 08:01 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HieroHero
"the first multi player adventure game!!!"

well maybe in his mind .....
Are you suggesting there are other multiplayer adventure games out there? I'm intrigued.
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Old 10-23-2005, 08:20 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjko
Are you suggesting there are other multiplayer adventure games out there? I'm intrigued.
Uru had multiplayer for a short period of time (it was originally planned to be its main gameplay mode) and Zork Grand Inquisitor included a cooperative play mode.
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Old 10-23-2005, 08:20 AM   #95
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The Mortadelo y Filemón games (known as Clever & Smart outside Spain) have a rough multiplayer concept which lets two players play the game simultaneously, with two different characters (Clever and Smart).
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Old 10-23-2005, 10:09 AM   #96
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Probably shouldn't have been stated publically - but the proposition that rather than paying AME to make their own demo - - Bad Brains pushed the idea it could be made by fans instead and in all seriousness.

The source is private, but it was one of the persons directly involved.

Have to protect your sources and all that press stuff.

And like Marek said, seemed implausible. It was "business decisions" or lack of them that caused me to have huge doubts about Bad Brains for some time. Not from lack of wild-eyed enthusiasm - but because they didn't seem to have a sound business plan or perhaps even a clue as to what is involved in developing, publishing and marketing a game.
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Old 10-23-2005, 10:17 PM   #97
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Well, as long as we all agree that it sounds improbable. I'd still like a source, but if it was never actually made public, I guess I have to take your word on it.

Which, I guess, make Mr. Kierdorf a bit of an idiot.

Still, I'll give any games BBE manages to get off the ground a fair shake. TO4 and TWW both look like they'll be decent if they're ever finished.
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Old 10-24-2005, 12:56 AM   #98
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Over the weekend I came to the realisation that it was indeed a bit silly of me to put "indie vs. EA" so starkly up front, like it was either one or the other. I know you all understand that I certainly see the tight fits of Bad Brain's pants (haha, that came out so wrong, but I don't feel like making up another silly analogy). I just like the guy, also on a personal level, but certainly also as a colourful guy in the industry. Yeah, so he's doing some crazy stuff, but it's not like it's coming off of our time or money or something. Whatever the reasons and how it started, it seems like there's some interesting stuff coming out of their stables.

Of course I am biased as living hell
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Old 10-24-2005, 01:09 AM   #99
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Marek
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Old 10-24-2005, 01:12 AM   #100
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Somebody should write the news on the front page!!

Edit: Rats, someone deleted Marek's post.
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