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Adventure games on Steam’s Greenlight
Does anyone know what happened to The Five Cores? It’s vanished from Greenlight
Hey Agustin, maybe you found the answer since your message is quite old now, but I got a direct answer by mail from the author of the five cores (he’s french too), and he says it was his choice to remove the game. He will put it back later on GL if the game finds a public.
Hey Agustin, maybe you found the answer since your message is quite old now, but I got a direct answer by mail from the author of the five cores (he’s french too), and he says it was his choice to remove the game. He will put it back later on GL if the game finds a public.
Given all the recent talk about The Five Cores here, my guess is it will definitely find a public. A lot of people have been dying for a recent Myst clone…
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Ah, thanks Simon! I guess the theories were correct then and he first wants to ensure steady sales outside Steam. Otherwise people might feel like they have to wait until the game is greenlit.
Here’s a new adventure BTW which is already wrapped up in controversy. Looks good though: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=100236305
Senscape // Founder // Designer | Working on: Asylum | Twitter: @AgustinCordes
Ah, thanks Simon! I guess the theories were correct then and he first wants to ensure steady sales outside Steam. Otherwise people might feel like they have to wait until the game is greenlit.
Number one reason I think Greenlight is going to harm games in the long run. Everyone wants to wait for Steam (because, you know, the game experience is TOTALLY different when you launch from Steam instead of the Start menu). I see the value in Steam and use it myself, but if I really want to play something I personally don’t need the game to be on Steam.
However, it seems that most in the gaming community are Steam holdouts, and won’t buy something unless it’s released there. Puts a lot of pressure on developers, it seems. And now, gamers will judge games before they are even complete. Seems to be a huge bottleneck. All the greenlight games that don’t make it will probably brushed aside into obscurity.
Steam monopoly FTW?
Ah, thanks Simon! I guess the theories were correct then and he first wants to ensure steady sales outside Steam. Otherwise people might feel like they have to wait until the game is greenlit.
Number one reason I think Greenlight is going to harm games in the long run. Everyone wants to wait for Steam (because, you know, the game experience is TOTALLY different when you launch from Steam instead of the Start menu). I see the value in Steam and use it myself, but if I really want to play something I personally don’t need the game to be on Steam.
However, it seems that most in the gaming community are Steam holdouts, and won’t buy something unless it’s released there. Puts a lot of pressure on developers, it seems. And now, gamers will judge games before they are even complete. Seems to be a huge bottleneck. All the greenlight games that don’t make it will probably brushed aside into obscurity.
Steam monopoly FTW?
Achievements, immediate update support, forum community, compatibility, in game steam interface, etc. It is a different experience. Being sarcastic doesn’t make it things go away because you don’t understand. Steam monopoly? No, no more than Xbox, Playstation, Wii being a monopoly. Its a service that makes the experience more seamless and enjoyable.
My question was why did he pull Five Cores off? Did he look at the numbers and say ‘oh well. i’ll be emo and pull it. nobody loves it’? Because if so, I said it a billion times already. STEAM DOESN’T BASE GREENLIGHT OFF OF NUMBERS!
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
STEAM DOESN’T BASE GREENLIGHT OFF OF NUMBERS!
Erm… No. Sorry, I know they said otherwise, but this simply doesn’t turn out to be true.
Senscape // Founder // Designer | Working on: Asylum | Twitter: @AgustinCordes
Ah, thanks Simon! I guess the theories were correct then and he first wants to ensure steady sales outside Steam. Otherwise people might feel like they have to wait until the game is greenlit.
Number one reason I think Greenlight is going to harm games in the long run. Everyone wants to wait for Steam (because, you know, the game experience is TOTALLY different when you launch from Steam instead of the Start menu). I see the value in Steam and use it myself, but if I really want to play something I personally don’t need the game to be on Steam.
However, it seems that most in the gaming community are Steam holdouts, and won’t buy something unless it’s released there. Puts a lot of pressure on developers, it seems. And now, gamers will judge games before they are even complete. Seems to be a huge bottleneck. All the greenlight games that don’t make it will probably brushed aside into obscurity.
Steam monopoly FTW?
Achievements, immediate update support, forum community, compatibility, in game steam interface, etc. It is a different experience. Being sarcastic doesn’t make it things go away because you don’t understand. Steam monopoly? No, no more than Xbox, Playstation, Wii being a monopoly. Its a service that makes the experience more seamless and enjoyable.
My question was why did he pull Five Cores off? Did he look at the numbers and say ‘oh well. i’ll be emo and pull it. nobody loves it’? Because if so, I said it a billion times already. STEAM DOESN’T BASE GREENLIGHT OFF OF NUMBERS!
I don’t understand? LOL, okay. I believe I posted I use Steam (bolded it for you in case you can’t find it), and I don’t see any sarcasm in my post. I’m quite well versed in achievements, updates, etc. But if you’re arguing that the in-game experience is different, that’s absurd. Does “Shift-Tabbing” every time you beat a level enhance the in-game experience?
Steam absolutely has a monopoly on digital distribution. Everyone knows this. For some it’s a good thing, for others it’s a bad thing. But the monopoly is indisputable. Saying XBox, PS3, and Wii are also monopolies doesn’t change the fact that Steam is one itself, and that’s a poor, empty argument intended to ignore my points.
Your response basically proves my point about the insanely loyal Steam user base. Just look at how defensive you became at the mere notion that someone isn’t a huge Steam fan. It must be because they “don’t understand it”. That, or they’re open minded about things. Plus, they like to be able to play their games without logging into a 3rd party client that, for the vast majority of (or virtually all) games, doesn’t change the in-game experience. I know that the achievement pop up gives you the illusion of extra content or enhanced gameplay, but it’s a marketing gimmick.
The rabidly loyal user base gives Steam the power and leverage they need to stay way out front. Gamers refusing to buy games unless they’re on Steam, like it or not, has a pretty big impact on how developers design and market their games. It’s business 101, and you can deny this basic logic all you want. And I’ll point out again that I use Steam frequently. I have games on there. I make purchases every now and then. But I don’t need every game on Steam, and I prefer DRM-free options. I guess this makes me a “Steam hater” since I’m not an unequivocal, resolute champion of all things Steam.
Regarding Greenlight, I’ll take the word of developers over the word of someone who gets angry if others criticize Steam or point out it’s less than perfect. Not to mention many devs have talked about statistics, rankings, etc. Look at the Cognition thread, or listen to Mr. Cordes. Stats and numbers matter. LOL how else is Steam going to evaluate which games are chosen? Throwing darts? Spinning a wheel?
Developers need games on Steam to reach audiences. Most Steam users, aka the vast majority of PC gamers, won’t buy games unless they’re on Steam. So, developers have no choice but to put games on Steam to reach those people or otherwise risk failure. That is a monopoly. 
Being angry that someone else sees this and has a different opinion than you doesn’t change that fact.
Developers need games on Steam to reach audiences. Most Steam users, aka the vast majority of PC gamers, won’t buy games unless they’re on Steam. So, developers have no choice but to put games on Steam to reach those people or otherwise risk failure. That is a monopoly.
Yeah, quite true. Actually, I put Anna’s Quest on Steam Greenlight in the hopes that it would be at minimum a way of advertising the game. Alas, despite having thousands of views and what seems to be quite a strong positive response, there’s been about 2 additional sales on my site haha. It really is a case of people just wanting to wait for Steam release it seems…
That being said, feel free to, you know… vote for my game! 
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=100743534
STEAM DOESN’T BASE GREENLIGHT OFF OF NUMBERS!
Erm… No. Sorry, I know they said otherwise, but this simply doesn’t turn out to be true.
Kind of a stupid argument. Of course great games with good production values will get high ratings and get greenlit. Its not all about ‘support a very small niche’. Its all about securing good products. You can’t release a crappy badly made game and bitch about how ‘Steam sucks for not greenlighting my game’.
Make a good product, show that it is made with love, and sell it to the public like you care. Then you will get greenlit. Again, it won’t happen instantly. They set specific dates when they announce what gets greenlit. its not like ‘hey it hit 100% Why isn’t it greenlit!??!’.
Its pointless to argue why people care about steam. Its opinion. Saying why it sucks isn’t exactly collaborative. It’s all subjective.
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
Somebody said Steam sucks? Where?
You’re coming off as a highly irrational Steam fanboy. It’s okay to criticize something in open discussion. But you’re just putting words into people’s mouths and arguing against things they haven’t said. We might as well put a picture of an empty chair somewhere in here.
Have you considered the notion that the Steam community maybe isn’t as infallibly dexterous at deeming a game “good” or “crappy badly made” as you claim?
Before Steam stopped revealing statistics to everyone, third party websites cataloged voting and showed that most of the top-voted games were:
- first person shooters
- zombie survival games
- Slenderman horror survival games
Very perceptive and rewarding to developers who try something new… (*that’s sarcasm*)
LOL the entire preceding post is completely nonsensical. It honestly sounds like it was written by an angry 15 year old who didn’t even read the above posts. This isn’t a discussion about why people care about Steam. It’s a discussion about the impact of Greenlight on game development and marketing. But the fact that you divert the discussion to this simplified, black or white, “Stop saying Steam sucks!” pissing match indicates a lack of understanding or a desire to not understand what’s being discussed.
The only person making inane arguments and touting subjective opinions as fact is you, not to mention exhibiting a great deal of insecurity over people making objective criticisms and responding to those criticisms in the aforementioned manner.
From my own experience (my game ASA is on greenlight), I can’t say Steam is well balanced to help your game being greenlit. OK you don’t have to reach 100% of votes, but if you don’t reach a certain amount, your game won’t be selected. That’s obvious, else why would they put this % number ? And how would they chose the games people want ? Come on, they just can’t read the comments on ALL games to see if people like or dislike ! They have statistics and that’s all, and statistics are numbers.
And what about the % number changing ? Imagine that 1 week ago my game had reach 48% of the votes needed to be in the top100 list, now for an unknown reason it’s down to 46% and yesterday 45%. I suppose it’s due to people downvoting, but how can you be greenlit with this system ? Sure, most people will tell you to gather more visitors to upvote, but communication is not my job and I already did a lot of work to gather people, and I’l keep doing some efforts. And when you’re not english born it’s not always that easy.
On top of that, they require you have bought a game on Steam to be allowed to vote !! How many people were happy to help my game, but couldn’t vote because they just created their account ??? Sounds sectarian to allow only the clients and community to vote ! When I read here “Make a good product, show that it is made with love, and sell it to the public like you care”... huhu ! That sounds funny ! My game IS made with love, else I wouldn’t make it on my own, but that’s not enough for greenlight. The word “public”, in the case of Steam, is highly restricted.
My point is that Greenlight still needs a lot of improvements if it really wants to help indies ! My best example is Vimeo, because it has somehow the same principle (with “likes” instead of “upvotes”). I use Vimeo a lot for my short films, and it’s way easier to share your video : if people like it, they don’t hesitate to click “like”. Here on greenlight, people hesitate between 2 buttons : vote Yes or No ? If they like the game, they might eventually click Yes, but the question asked on Greenlight is “Would you BUY this game if it was released on Steam ?” Question of money… Would I personally buy EACH game I click Yes on Greenlight ??? Of course not ! And I could see around my friends that, most of the time, they prefer NOT to upvote, even for a game they do like, because they know they won’t buy it later ! That’s a vote lost !
So the way Greenlight is made(money money)doesn’t make it a GREAT platform for indie devs, unless they already realeased a great game, or are famous, and have money to communicate. True that adventure games (and particularly slideshow adventures) are not the most popular games on Steam (where people look for action games or FPS mostly), but if that makes it a crusade to have a game greenlit, I’m really starting to wonder why they make you pay for subscription ! Pay for adding a game on Steam that will be sold : OK, would sound fair. But pay for just showing your game in GL…
So Yes, Steam is based on NUMBERS, MONEY and depends on a quite restricted public. That’s my opinion, of course, and I don’t ask everyone to believe this, but from my experience I don’t think I’m wrong…
Somebody said Steam sucks? Where?
You’re coming off as a highly irrational Steam fanboy. It’s okay to criticize something in open discussion. But you’re just putting words into people’s mouths and arguing against things they haven’t said. We might as well put a picture of an empty chair somewhere in here.
Have you considered the notion that the Steam community maybe isn’t as infallibly dexterous at deeming a game “good” or “crappy badly made” as you claim?
Before Steam stopped revealing statistics to everyone, third party websites cataloged voting and showed that most of the top-voted games were:
- first person shooters
- zombie survival games
- Slenderman horror survival gamesVery perceptive and rewarding to developers who try something new… (*that’s sarcasm*)
LOL the entire preceding post is completely nonsensical. It honestly sounds like it was written by an angry 15 year old who didn’t even read the above posts. This isn’t a discussion about why people care about Steam. It’s a discussion about the impact of Greenlight on game development and marketing. But the fact that you divert the discussion to this simplified, black or white, “Stop saying Steam sucks!” pissing match indicates a lack of understanding or a desire to not understand what’s being discussed.
The only person making inane arguments and touting subjective opinions as fact is you, not to mention exhibiting a great deal of insecurity over people making objective criticisms and responding to those criticisms in the aforementioned manner.
I’m not stating opinions as facts. They are just facts. Valve has a great track record for working with the community and the game industry itself. Fanboy? Sure. Absolutely. But my words are nothing more than truth. Steam is a great service to get your product noticed by an absolutely HUMONGOUS database of users. Not just users, but ACTIVE users.
Putting words in your mouth is nothing more than an emotional assumption of all the posts found not just in this thread, but on the forums.
Furthermore, i’m done.
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
No other way to respond. I hope Kuru is reading. 
I’m not stating opinions as facts.
Yes, you are doing just that.
They are just facts.
No, they aren’t. They are simplified, overstated, unfounded, illogical opinions.
Valve has a great track record for working with the community and the game industry itself.
Like taking away the ability for users to file class action lawsuits, and forcing them to sign the new user agreement or otherwise be locked out of their accounts?
Fanboy? Sure. Absolutely.
But my words are nothing more than truth.
No, they aren’t. Repeating this does not make it so.
Steam is a great service to get your product noticed by an absolutely HUMONGOUS database of users. Not just users, but ACTIVE users.
Nobody is debating the popularity of Steam, so you can put to rest your insecurities about how great it is. The debate regards how that popularity, its effect on gamers’ mentalities, and that collective effect on how developers design and market games.
Putting words in your mouth is nothing more than an emotional assumption of all the posts found not just in this thread, but on the forums.
No. And the only person posting emotionally is you.
Furthermore, i’m done.
Well, you haven’t offered one thought of substance. You’ve just been doing 
. I hate to pull a Frogacuda, but maybe you should reread all these posts. The discussion is not about how popular Steam is. Multiple developers have posted in here and basically corroborated how Greenlight is affecting their development process. I’ll summarize the main points for you so it’s easy to understand:
- Steam has a monopoly on digital distribution.
- Most Steam users refuse to purchase games unless through Steam.
- Greenlight complicates how developers make and market their games.
- Greenlight extends Steam’s power of influence from distribution to also influencing development.
- If a developer puts a game on Greenlight too early to time it with completion, the game may appear unfinished/unpolished or otherwise be poorly received by the fickle, mercurial Steam community.
- If a developer puts a game on Greenlight too late into development, they risk losing a lot of early sales because most people will wait until the game is on Steam.
- The Steam community is far from capable of rewarding the most clever, innovative, interesting projects. Instead games like FPS, zombie survival, and Slenderman horror that have been already done ad nauseum have been receiving the most votes.
Since you reject this straightforward logic, it’s clear you are either trolling or just being obtuse on purpose because of your self-proclaimed fanboyism that clouds your judgment and reasoning.
In my opinion, Greenlight is basically Steam putting hundreds indie developers into a large cage, arming them with shivs, and saying, “When all but ten of you are dead, we will free you.”
No other way to respond. I hope Kuru is reading.
I’m not stating opinions as facts.
Yes, you are doing just that.
They are just facts.
No, they aren’t. They are simplified, overstated, unfounded, illogical opinions.
Valve has a great track record for working with the community and the game industry itself.
Like taking away the ability for users to file class action lawsuits, and forcing them to sign the new user agreement or otherwise be locked out of their accounts?
Fanboy? Sure. Absolutely.
But my words are nothing more than truth.
No, they aren’t. Repeating this does not make it so.
Steam is a great service to get your product noticed by an absolutely HUMONGOUS database of users. Not just users, but ACTIVE users.
Nobody is debating the popularity of Steam, so you can put to rest your insecurities about how great it is. The debate regards how that popularity, its effect on gamers’ mentalities, and that collective effect on how developers design and market games.
Putting words in your mouth is nothing more than an emotional assumption of all the posts found not just in this thread, but on the forums.
No. And the only person posting emotionally is you.
Furthermore, i’m done.
Well, you haven’t offered one thought of substance. You’ve just been doing- Steam has a monopoly on digital distribution.
- Most Steam users refuse to purchase games unless through Steam.
- Greenlight complicates how developers make and market their games.
- Greenlight extends Steam’s power of influence from distribution to also influencing development.
- If a developer puts a game on Greenlight too early to time it with completion, the game may appear unfinished/unpolished or otherwise be poorly received by the fickle, mercurial Steam community.
- If a developer puts a game on Greenlight too late into development, they risk losing a lot of early sales because most people will wait until the game is on Steam.
- The Steam community is far from capable of rewarding the most clever, innovative, interesting projects. Instead games like FPS, zombie survival, and Slenderman horror that have been already done ad nauseum have been receiving the most votes.Since you reject this straightforward logic, it’s clear you are either trolling or just being obtuse on purpose because of your self-proclaimed fanboyism that clouds your judgment and reasoning.
In my opinion, Greenlight is basically Steam putting hundreds indie developers into a large cage, arming them with shivs, and saying, “When all but ten of you are dead, we will free you.”
I only stated the purpose of Greenlight and Steam. Relevant to the topic.
Stuart Bradley Newsom - Naughty Shinobi || Our Game: Shadow Over Isolation
No other way to respond. I hope Kuru is reading.
How did I get dragged into this???
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