Adventure Gamers - Forums

Iznogood - 18 February 2014 10:25 PM

And a Golden age usually has a decline towards the end, yet this decline is still considered a part of the Golden Age. Golden ages doesn’t end at their peaks.

Actually, I’d argue that a Golden Age IS the peak. And imo, the decline had already begun in 1997, and I included that year…

It seems like the only conclusion that can be made from this thread, is that once again we can’t agree on anything or reach a consensus on even the simplest of things.

That’s what happens when you argue about something that can’t be so easily defined - you only get subjective answers. It’s akin to “de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum”.

TimovieMan - 19 February 2014 03:21 PM

It seems like the only conclusion that can be made from this thread, is that once again we can’t agree on anything or reach a consensus on even the simplest of things.

That’s what happens when you argue about something that can’t be so easily defined - you only get subjective answers. It’s akin to “de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum”.

Nope - I don’t think that is it!

If historians and archaeologists can agree on dividing history into different time periods, even though it happened thousands of years before they were born, and if geologists and palaeontologists and whatnot can agree on dividing the earth’s history into different periods, based purely on examining millions or billions of years old rocks and fossils, then there really is no excuse at all for why we can’t agree on dividing the history of adventure games into different time periods, especially since at least most of us actually lived through the period and has first hand knowledge.

I think that it is because we are all a bunch of argumentative sons of bitches, that would rather get up on the soapbox and yell out our personal opinions, than have a nice civilized debate over a cup of tea, where a consensus (and perhaps a nice group hug) is achieved at the end

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Anyway, if it can help a consensus being reached, then I can accept anything from 1990 to 1993 as the beginning of the golden age, and anything from 1997 to 1999 as the end, as long as we all agree that the golden age was in the 90’s and not the 80’s.

Iznogood - 20 February 2014 01:33 AM

If historians and archaeologists can agree on dividing history into different time periods, even though it happened thousands of years before they were born, and if geologists and palaeontologists and whatnot can agree on dividing the earth’s history into different periods, based purely on examining millions or billions of years old rocks and fossils, then there really is no excuse at all for why we can’t agree on dividing the history of adventure games into different time periods, especially since at least most of us actually lived through the period and has first hand knowledge.

I think that it is because we are all a bunch of argumentative sons of bitches, that would rather get up on the soapbox and yell out our personal opinions, than have a nice civilized debate over a cup of tea, where a consensus (and perhaps a nice group hug) is achieved at the end

^This.

Still, Golden Age was in 80s-early 90s

Oscar - 20 February 2014 03:24 AM

There is a very good excuse - when it comes to arguments about quality there is no consensus. Someone might hold text adventures to be the peak of adventure games - in which case the mid-late 80s would be the “golden age”.

Lambonius - 20 February 2014 03:36 AM

Plenty of historians have achieved consensus on judgments of the quality of great works of art, or buildings, or other works of creativity and human invention.  Why should adventure games be any different?

But it isn’t (just) an argument about quality. The closest thing to a (short) definition of a Golden Age I have found is: “a period of great happiness, prosperity, and achievement”

For example, in Denmark we have in art a period know as The Golden Age, but this doesn’t mean that all the best art was made in this period, or everything before or after was crap, instead in refers to a period where there was a great boom in art, not just in quality but also in quantity and popularity, and the reason for it was probably just as much because more people could now afford art, it was no longer solely the domain of the nobility, as it was because a lot of talented painters lived in this period.

When we try to define “The Golden Age of Adventure Games”, then we have to define it in a similar way, as the period where there were a great boom in adventure games, and we can’t just look at the quality, but we also have to look at the quantity, the popularity and the sales numbers.

Oscar - 20 February 2014 07:40 AM

That sort of logic would leave us declaring late 20th century pop music as the Golden Age of music, above Beethoven, Bach and Mozart. I wonder what the historians would have to say about that?

You raise a valid point there. As a musician, devoted to playing Bach, I shudder at what passes for music in todays society. It’s catered for people with no musical insight whatsoever, and a parallel can be drawn to the simplifying of adventure games. From the beautifully complex mathematical patterns of Bach (which requires considerable effort from its listener) to the overly simplistic 3-chord crap that represents just about anything that sells today. Sadly, the golden age of music is long gone

For me, the golden age of adventure games is 1990-1997. In 1990, they had begun finding their form, by 1993, they’d been improved by better resolution, improved gameplay (adressing random deaths, dead ends and unfair puzzles among other things), the CD-rom allowed enough disc space to store voice files and real, recorded music. By 1997, adventure games had reached it’s peak, and produced the best and only flawless adventure game ever made: The Curse of Monkey Island. Then it all went downhill and turned into a technological race, and, in the process, adventure games began losing their charm and beauty. While I have much love for Grim Fandango and The Loungest Journey, I agree with Tim that they’re aftershocks of something great, but even though they’re both masterfully written, the taint of the horrid early-time 3D leaves a foul taste in my mouth. Fortunately, 3D is finally getting to the point where it actually looks great and TBOUT2 seems to be taking AG visuals to a new level.

Oscar - 20 February 2014 07:40 AM

That sort of logic would leave us declaring late 20th century pop music as the Golden Age of music, above Beethoven, Bach and Mozart. I wonder what the historians would have to say about that?

How on earth did classical music and pop music end up in the same hat?
Even though they are both music, then they are two very different types of music, and are based on different technologies. Pop music is very much based on the ability to record and mass distribute the music, which simply wasn’t possible in Beethoven, Bach and Mozart time.

You could just as well argue that television is the golden age of painting because they are both pictures, or that the Roman gladiator fights was the golden age of adventure games because the gladiator fights was also a kind of game.

Besides, how exactly would that kind of logic lead to your conclusion?
As I wrote:

Iznogood - 20 February 2014 04:31 AM

The closest thing to a (short) definition of a Golden Age I have found is: “a period of great happiness, prosperity, and achievement”

And I was simply applying that definition to Adventure Games, and NOT to all games in general, arguing that adventure games represent the golden age of all games that have ever existed in the history of mankind.

Detective Mosely - 20 February 2014 03:59 PM

Only on adventuregamers.com! 

We should make that our slogan.

Iznogood - 20 February 2014 12:20 PM

How on earth did classical music and pop music end up in the same hat?
Even though they are both music, then they are two very different types of music, and are based on different technologies. Pop music is very much based on the ability to record and mass distribute the music, which simply wasn’t possible in Beethoven, Bach and Mozart time.

What difference does it make for someone born in 20-21 century? I’ve been listening to the concerts and records of Mozart, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Vivaldi since childhood, along with pop music, and it never struck me as something very different. Their melodies are more complex, more varied and require some patience to listen to, that’s all.

On a music related note, Iron Maiden just announced 2014 “Maiden England” tour to visit Serbia, Poland and Norway.

On a topic related note, there’s a song by the same band that goes:

“And realize you’re living in the golden years”.

And so, I’ve made up my mind - The Golden Years of Adventure Games is 1976-2014 and counting