Adventure Gamers - Forums

I somewhat disagree with that Chrissie’s view of Eva and Neil. [spoiler]Even though Neil was kind of a jerk in the beginning, when push came to shove he was willing to risk his career to give the patient what he really wanted: River and his lost memories, the moon was an allegory. I don’t think he was compromised in any way there. Eva risked everything going horribly wrong to keep her job, though I guess she was a romantic and she hoped everything would work out fine: they’d find each other. But there was no guarantee. It would have been tragic to erase such a love story.[/spoiler]

I think it was truly beautiful how River kept trying to provoke Johnny’s memories up until the end, actually even from beyond grave. And it was truly sad how hung up Johnny was with the disconnected memories. I’m glad he got to “live” a life with his brother but getting to the moon was very irrelevant in it, surely they could have saved the brother and let the couple meet again in the fair?

I did notice the flashing and it was one of the cues but I still think it’s as likely to be a red herring. Though the memories miraculously working towards Eva’s advantage would support it being in Eva’s head. Could be either. I’m sure the clues are intentional, but I’m not sure there even is a right answer, as there shouldn’t be.

Details about the ending are starting to get a bit fuzzy, but I interpreted the flashing as if we’re watching Neil’s memories being altered. I merely think that the second episode in the series would be about manipulating Neil’s memories as Eva (or maybe vice-versa, you’re making me doubt myself).

As is, it felt more like a wink from the author than anything else, and it doesn’t take away any of the strength of the first story…

I don’t think anything confirmed that they would be Eva’s but it’s of course possible since the whole pill issue was very hazy, Eva certainly thought they were Neil’s and he did take pills in the end.

And yes, it is very much possible that Neil ends up overdosing and Eva is in his head later on. Another good explanation.

chrissie - 12 July 2013 05:10 PM

Iznogood - 12 July 2013 04:16 PM

Edit: And it was Eva’s pills, not Neil’s, given as part of her cancer treatment.

We must have played a different game because in my game Eva asked Neil about the pills (that were his!)she’d found! How was it they were hers? -  what did I miss? I’m beginning to wonder now…..

Well, we have most certainly been playing the same game, and i do remember that conversation, so lets try to analyze the pill situation a bit: (if we analyze it deep enough, there is imo actually a small logical hole, but i will ignore that, at least for now)

First of all in the conversation you are referring to it is revealed that the pills are normally used for cancer patients, Eva says that herself. So i think we can deduce that there is a high chance that one of our two doctors have cancer, even if it isn’t said directly. Also you might remember that Neil is very evasive when confronted about the pills and won’t talk about them, this actually fits perfectly with the whole dream in dream situation. If Eve is dying of cancer and this is really her memory that is being altered, then she wouldn’t be aware of it, and telling her it is her pills would break the illusion. Okay so far it is not conclusive, and it could also mean other things.

But then we have the red flashing of the screen at the end, you might have noticed that only Neil notices it and responds to it, whereas Eva apparently doesn’t notice it at all. So if i’m correct that the flashing means we are inside one of the two doctors memory, then it also has to mean that it is Eva’s memory that is being manipulated, otherwise it would be Eva that commented on the flashing.

So if we are inside Eva’s memory, and they only do this for dying people, and the pills are mainly used for cancer patients, then it also means that the pills have to be Eva’s, and that she is dying of cancer!

I admit it is all told very subtle and you have to add 2 and 2 together yourself, and it is (probably) possible to come to other conclusions.

But i am pretty convinced that the analyses above is correct. And you should also notice that the fact that the pills are used for cancer patients, supports the idea that one of the doctors are dying, and the whole dream in a dream idea. Why else should the game empathize that the pills are used for cancer patients?

One thing i however can’t figure out, is how much of the whole Johny and River story that is actually real?

As i see it there is basically tow possibilities, and some shades of gray between them:

1) The story is basically true.
Eva was really a doctor that changed dying peoples memories, and Johny was a real patient of hers, but she screwed up the case and never got the result she wanted. Now her dying wish is to correct that mistake

2) It is all a constructed memory and nothing is true.
Just as Johny never actually was an astronaut, Eva was also never a doctor who changed peoples memory. But it is her dying which that she had been one, and everything has been constructed to fulfill her wish.

chrissie - 13 July 2013 06:09 AM

The dream in dream situation is quite thought-provoking as is your theory about the red flashing which I interpreted as the ending of the patient’s life I’m now planning to replay the game with these ideas in mind!

[spoiler]The red flashing is most definitely a sign the patients life is near the end, the question is who the patient is? The last flash occurs after Johny is both dead and buried, so it has to be someone else.[/spoiler]

It just occurred to me that this very last scene i’m referring to, and which is the base of my whole interpretation, happens after the credits! Is it possible that you didn’t see that scene? Many probably haven’t got the patience to watch through the credits, and would have missed this very last scene. (I only do it myself, because i know many games like to add something after the credits)

If that is the case then you don’t have to replay the whole game, you can just watch the last scene on youtube here.

I must also confess that i just noticed something else in that last scene, that makes me wonder if my interpretation is 100% correct, perhaps i should also replay the whole game?!?

Iznogood - 13 July 2013 07:56 AM

Many probably haven’t got the patience to watch through the credits, and would have missed this very last scene. (I only do it myself, because i know many games like to add something after the credits)

I always keep on watching the credits. Not only to see if there’s a stinger (post-credits scene), but also out of respect for the makers.
I often get riled up when TV stations go to a commercial break as soon as the credits start rolling on a film. That’s disrespectful beyond belief, imo…

threerings - 14 July 2013 02:39 AM

Ok, I JUST finished playing the game today, and I don’t remember any mention of cancer in relation to the pills.  In the scene where Eva finds the pills and Neil says they are his they are called pain pills, he says he needs them because he walked into a wall.  She says they are very serious or heavy-duty pills and is he addicted.  He says he would rather overdose than be addicted.  No mention of cancer.  Was it somewhere else?

They are pain killers, but i’m pretty sure that Eva mentions that they are normally used for cancer patients. It has been a couple of months since i played it though, so i can’t remember when or where she mentions it, or if it perhaps is an optional scene.

I’m couple of episodes in to The Walking Dead and I like it. I doubt I will give it 5/5 just because it’s zombies. I don’t like zombies and I am totally bored of zombies. Even if they never call them zombies, it’s still zombies. But anyway, the game is good. I usually end up liking these interactive movie types, I gave Heavy Rain 5/5 and Fahrenheit 4.5/5.

I had already forgotten that the game was episodic, didn’t list it under the episodes. Aaaand playing a Telltale title reminds me that I really should already play those Sam & Max games. I only played the first couple of episodes when they came. Hit the Road I’ve of course played several times and should replay it again with new, hopefully more mature eyes.

Aaand The Walking Dead is done. I pretty much played it episode per night. I gave it a 4.5 being a little bit generous, I just felt 4 is not quite enough, it would be more like 4.25. I don’t seem to like full and half a stars, I probably should change into 1.0-10.0 rating scale or something.

Anyway, good stuff. There were touching moments, which is great, mostly it was bleak as hell which is okay, then too much zombies which (I’m pretty sure) took at least half a star from my rating. I think there was enough gameplay and it was okay but it’s not the thing in this game. Most of all it is an interactive movie and it is interesting to follow what your choices do.

Of course in reality the alternatives are very limited but this kind of narrative still works very well. If they gave the player more freedom it would mean making a huge game where people might end up adventuring in different places etc. Would be very expensive and hard to do, though I hope they do go into that direction some day (not with all adventures though, I rather have the genre expanding than just moving into one direction).

I liked the statistics after every episode, knowing what other people chose. Mostly I did what the majority did but there were some choices where I was being quite an unique unicorn. Anyway I did get the itch to play it again with different choices and I will, but not right away as I think at this point I’d just try to fastforward all the stuff to the specific points which is really not the right way to play an adventure. I’m sure I’ll get more out of it a bit later when I’m up to living the whole journey again. And I’m quite sure I’d like to play something without zombies now.

Also, I did get tempted to buy the DLC but I think I’ll restrain myself as I have so much to play already. I’ve survived the Steam Summer sale quite nicely so far (though I just bought 3 games from elsewhere).