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Epics
Edna and Harvey the breakout
starts in one room, a cell you are locked in - then sends you in thru a flashback to get a grip of Harvey’s ability - then to the doctor’s office with no way back (another locked room but with more options and hotspots) - then a hallway, the utility room but the doctor office now still accessible…. there a guard keeping you from the rest of the Level rooms - and then once you get past him you get to explore the whole level/floor and then the rest of the levels/building, and in a while comes the hassle of getting thru a shaft to the other side of the hospital… and so
so the game starts thru a series of rooms of puzzles about getting out or into them, which makes the player explore each one thoroughly, and once you have access to most of the hospital parts you find them all connected thru different exits (not how you left them), suddenly the game gets enormous, epic and nonlinear; with 10s of rooms, you have your time with, finding new puzzles here and there, which makes every corner of the hospital a place for exploring, separately and collectively, with the greatest design, plus then the unusable stuff and junk you ran into before adds another level as they turn now into helpful and essential matters/hotspots.
brilliant design!.. or perfect may i say.. the only downside is running back and forth without some kind of shortcuts thru this large space near the end of that part.
The entire story and medieval setting of Ken Follet’s The Pillars of the Earth is epic. Probably the most epic adventure game I’ve ever played.
Well that and The Longest Journey of course.
I also feel like Telltale made some pretty epic games like Game of Thrones.
This is a hard question, i.e. how do you define Epic? The movie, Ben-Hur, was epic on so many levels. It took place in an epic time. It had epic heroes and villains. It had epic actors and an epic score by Miklos Rozsa. It won a gazzilion Academy Award Oscars. When you Google “Epic” you are taken to the IMDB website for this movie. (kidding)
Are there any games that can compete with this sort of definition of Epic?
Not many, I think. Just because a game was really, really good does not endow it with epic status. MYST? It was really good. It was groundbreaking in terms of atmosphere and graphics. But it was quickly surpassed by its own clones, such as Riven.
Grim Fandango was rated the best game of all time, but is it epic? Recent discussions say that it has more than enough flaws to question its GOAT status.
I consider Syberia to be epic. It was the first game to ring the bell on every one of the ratable categories. Graphics/Plot/Voice acting/musical score, et al.
Yet it was outdone on all fronts by The World Before. So, which one should be considered epic?
I think this discussion is one of the may we’ve had that seems like it is on a road to nowhere, simply because I don’t think there is a concensus as to what Epic means.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
Life is too short to drink bad wine…
This is a hard question, i.e. how do you define Epic? The movie, Ben-Hur, was epic on so many levels. It took place in an epic time. It had epic heroes and villains. It had epic actors and an epic score by Miklos Rozsa. It won a gazzilion Academy Award Oscars. When you Google “Epic” you are taken to the IMDB website for this movie. (kidding)
epic
ĕp′ĭk
noun
1. An extended narrative poem in elevated or dignified language, celebrating the feats of a legendary or traditional hero.
2. A literary or dramatic composition that resembles an extended narrative poem celebrating heroic feats.
3. A series of events considered appropriate to an epic.
4. A narrative poem of elevated character, describing generally the exploits of heroes; an epic poem. See I.
It seems to me that the only essential element is the presence of a hero, and possibly another element of length.
I think what makes it difficult is that the modern usage is more akin to “awesome’ or “much loved” more than anything else. Maybe I should have clarified which definition I meant in the OP, but I suppose either is fine (though a “much loved games” thread isn’t as interesting to me).
The entire story and medieval setting of Ken Follet’s The Pillars of the Earth is epic. Probably the most epic adventure game I’ve ever played.
Yes, I thought about that game. It certainly spans a long period (30 years?) I just remember in my playthrough it being mostly tragedy. Which of course doesn’t write it off.
I notice 99% of mentions have been 3rd person (barring The Witness, an incredible game but not one I personally would describe as epic).
Well, you said: “What do you think of as some of the epics of the genre? However you want to define the word.” But if it doesn’t meet your criteria I’ll remove it, no problem.
However you want to define the word includes however I want to define the word, doesn’t it? Both are valid.
AKA Charo
This is a hard question, i.e. how do you define Epic? The movie, Ben-Hur, was epic on so many levels. It took place in an epic time. It had epic heroes and villains. It had epic actors and an epic score(...)
All of that suddenly reminded me of Full Throttle. The main character is also a Ben, bike riding and fighting + car derby have elements of Chariot Racing. Ben is also an iconic character, an archetype. He’s also kind of a larger than life character, he represents a certain ideal.
You see Corley admiring and kind of living vicariously through it, while Ben just treats him like a momentary obstacle. He doesn’t try to avoid confrontation, he overrides it and doesn’t look back.
Then there’s a patricide of sorts, blame unjustly assigned and a quest to set things straight and re-conquer freedom/autonomy. There’s tragedy, people fulfilling some kind of destiny, a classic heel betrayal, followed by some great plotting and scheming.
It starts with a monologue that is also a dedication, to a muse.
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
Does not impress me at all.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
https://adventuregamers.com/gameseries/view/23896 here’s an ancient epic I once played on my “Super Sweeney Entertainment System.” It was a megagame.
[Shenmue] integrated QTEs into the gameplay as a puzzle element
How so? Do them well for the best result; fail them and Ryo is a douche for making the little girl cry.
QTEs are basically reaction tests, you don’t even need a computer for that mechanic. There were coin operated reaction tests machines long before there were video games.
In Shenmue, QTEs are used as a mechanic to solve a situation, usually to get out of some threat. If you do that successfully, then the game mechanic changes to something else. The entire game isn’t based on reaction tests, and if you compare to, for instance, later Telltale games, the difference is obvious.
In Shenmue, QTEs are used to spice up things (obviously you may not like the taste of it, that’s personal preference), but in some Telltale games it’s the main gameplay mechanics.
And how broad is the AG genre here anyway for Shenmue to be included? Many open world games have “long discussions, traditional object on other object puzzles” like, say, the Fallout franchise. Are these included as well? Or is this just your convoluted way to avoid stepping foot in the General section?
I think there’s no doubt about Shenmue being an adventure game.
It is listed on AdventureGamers database, it is labelled as an adventure in many other places, and if you compare it with some, let’s say, JRPGs, there’s unbelievably little action and nothing stats related. You don’t need to gather weapons, you don’t need to grind stats. You can learn some special fight moves, but you can also skip them, your choice.
Obviously there is some fighting, which is understandable, as the game started as a Virtua Fighter spin-off. But that in mind, there’s unbelievably few actions scenes in the game, and passing those is ridiculously easy. So obviously fighting isn’t the main purpose here. Fist fights in LucasArts’ Indiana Jones adventures are more difficult than fights in Shenmue.
Even that special 100 vs. 1 bonus feature that opens up after completing the game took me only four tries to pass.
And just an aside, in disc 4 there was an online service called Shenmue Password which explained every single NPC backstory in great detail. It was then closed in 2002 and only very recently revived for iOS. So, until recently the majority of those who’ve played it never understood 99% of what the NPCs were on about.
I can only assume that those people played localised version of Shenmue.
Playing the Japanese version makes it more simple, as simply hearing what name suffices (-san, -sama, -chan, -kun) are being used will tell about characters relations to one another.
And on that related, or perhaps unrelated note, in case any of you care, just few weeks ago, a passionate fan called Sylwahan released an undub patch for the first Yakuza game. The patch is called Yakuza Restored, and it does the following changes to the Western version of the game:
That’s some respectable fan passion there!
And an important work to undo some ugly mess that localisation did in the first place.
And obviously Yakuza is an epic game on its own, not necessarily an adventure game by most people’s opinion, but probably worth playing anyway.
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
Does not impress me at all.
Well, at least they have given free games every week as long as the store has existed, so that’s something at least.
They did anger some gamers by having Shenmue III as Epic exclusive game when it was released, and if anyone wants to see some unfiltered Internet rage, Shenmue III Kickstarter comment section is the place to go! 
These days it’s available on Steam, and most importantly GOG, so I guess people are not that angry about it anymore.
@GateKeeper It’s also Adventure like so many games but that’s different to an AG, I would think; almost everywhere Shenmue is described as being an Action-Adventure Sim, including wikipedia. But if it’s in the AG database then… 🤷.
I can understand why some people would label it something else, but as it’s listed here, and even received four and half stars in the review, I think it can be counted on this site at least.
For what it’s worth, it’s also listed on Pagoda.
On Mobygames its genre is simulation. I can’t really support that.
While it’s technically speaking 100% true, it simulates life better than (m)any games before it, day-night cycles, NPCs going to and from work and all, the point of the game is not simulation, it’s the protagonist’s quest for justice, adventure, if you will.
In SimCity or The Sims the simulation is the main thing. In Shenmue it’s just the setting for the story. So while it’s technically accurate to call it simulation, it misses the point of the game entirely.
As for the NPC backstories, you misunderstood me. Many NPCs Ryo comes across with don’t use honorifics at all in the japanese v.o. and barely say 2 sentences, such has the Bye bye, boy! woman – nowhere else but in Shenmue Passport does it explain that she’s an undercover agent. Honorifics or not, these backstories are nowhere to be found outside of an online service that ended in 2002 and only got revived recently. I’m guessing you’re one of the many who didn’t get to use it?
OK, I see now.
Well, those kind of things are common companion pieces to some films and games. I personally don’t care much about them. There are filler characters in almost every bigger game. I guess knowing background stories for every NPC is cool for some super fans, I can live with knowing the main characters only.
(Although I actually did knock on every door in Shenmue! )
Finally, as for its QTEs: they’re timed prompts, I still don’t see how these are in any way a puzzle element.
They are part of some bigger sequences of events.
Like when you need to ride on the motorcycle and avoid the bad guys, and when it’s completed successfully, the game mode changes to racing against the clock. Or the QTE sequence is preceded of followed by some other kind of things, like conversations.
Obviously you need to see the puzzle as a higher level concept than the traditional “the door is locked” kind of problem.
I guess to simplify this, QTEs in Shenmue felt meaningful most of the time.
In Telltale’s Jurassic Park, on the other hand, I felt I was just pushing buttons for buttons’ sake all the time.
(Although the translation puzzle in Jurassic Park is great!)
QTEs in Shenmue aren’t puzzles, it’s a reflex challenge not a thinking challenge. You aren’t thinking of a solution, you’re quite literally given the button to press and the challenge is how quickly you can react. By this logic Dance Dance Revolution is a puzzle game.
The only exceptions I can think of are some where you’re supposed to think not to press the button. Like the encounter in the barber shop. You could justifiably call that a puzzle because the actual challenge is to interpret the narrative and make the correct choice.
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
Does not impress me at all.
Geez, rt, it wasn’t meant to impress. It was meant to be silly. I just was pointing out that if you want EPIC games, you gotta get ‘em at the EPIC store… 
Life is too short to drink bad wine…
have another glass, Mike
For the most comprehensive list of EPIC games, check this site out: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/home
Does not impress me at all.
Geez, rt, it wasn’t meant to impress. It was meant to be silly. I just was pointing out that if you want EPIC games, you gotta get ‘em at the EPIC store…
I thought it was a good joke, but I’m not great at making ‘em so take that compliment as you will. 
Tim Sweeney was prescient in choosing a name for his company - and dropping the Megagames part at some point. I really wonder what the business model and future plans for the EPIC games launcher are. They’re giving away games (through some deal with publishers), but the user interface is still clunky and limited compared to steam or even GoG Galaxy.
Speaking of Epic Megagames and epic mega games: there are a lot of epic games with quests and whatnot in ZZT.
have another glass, Mike
Life is too short to drink bad wine…
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