Adventure Gamers - Forums
You are here: Home → Forum Home → Gaming → Adventure → Thread
Post Marker Legend:
-
New posts -
No new posts
Currently online
The Walking Dead
I finally decided to buy the game, thanks to another Steam sale and everyone’s strong reactions on this forum. I’ve been intrigued ever since the first episode came out, but reading your thoughts on the grand finale really makes me want to jump in too and see for myself.
I’ve only played two Telltale series prior to this: Tales of Monkey Island and Back to the Future. Both were great, but I’m expecting The Walking Dead to be radically different, obviously.
Like others have said I don’t care if there is only one ending, I felt that even simple choices like your final words to Clem are of more importance to you as the player and your emotional journey.
I felt like I was being stabbed in the heart. I wanted so bad to have the option to tell her that I loved her, I talked to her every chance I got in the final scene and liked that Lee kept reassuring her, telling her she was doing a good job, but I was disappointed that he never said those words. In the end “I miss you” was the best the game let me do and although I’m perfectly okay with how I chose to play the final scene, I’m still sick that I never got to tell Clem I loved her.
The outcome was pretty obvious from the end of ep4. For me, doing it “right” and leaving Clem with as much knowledge and as few scars as I possibly could was the goal. So I tried very hard to reassure her and I did not make her shoot Lee at the end. Who knows what will happen in Season 2 (and if our saves will carry over in any significant way), but I feel like I did what I set out to do, as far as protecting Clem is concerned.
And 24 hours later, thinking about this still makes me feel like crying…
I am not a big fan of the game for many different reasons, mainly the lack of actual gameplay.
But even when accepting the game for what it is, about the story and the choises you make, then i still found it very annoying that the choises don’t have more influence on that story. And im not just talking about the ending, eg early in the game you have to choose who you are going to save, but it doesn’t take long before the one you saved dies anyway, so what is the point of choosing if they are both doomed, and neither will realy play any part in the story?
Telltale creates an illusion that your choises matter, but if you replay the game, and make all the opposite choises, then you will discover that it actually only has a small influence on the story.
By lack of “gameplay”, I guess you mean lack of traditional inventory puzzles, because there was a ton of gameplay. From walking around and talking to people, making decisions, quick time events, small amount of traditional puzzles and action.
As for your other point. It’s the illusion of choice that matter. If you played it from start to finish, sticking to your choice then the illusion holds.
Sure if you are going back and dissect the game and poking at all the choices then the illusion will fall away.
That’s the same for virtually EVERY video game that provides choices. Mass Effect series did a similar save game carry over on a bigger scale, but you still ended up 3 games later at the same ending no matter what the choices were.
As multiple people have said it’s about the journey, the small and large changes that each player chooses to steer their story in that provides the illusion that you are altering the world, but in a zombie apolcalypse it’s all inevitable and you are only prolonging your fate.
An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
Roberta Williams
I felt like I was being stabbed in the heart. I wanted so bad to have the option to tell her that I loved her, I talked to her every chance I got in the final scene and liked that Lee kept reassuring her, telling her she was doing a good job, but I was disappointed that he never said those words. In the end “I miss you” was the best the game let me do and although I’m perfectly okay with how I chose to play the final scene, I’m still sick that I never got to tell Clem I loved her.
It was brutal The “keep your hair short” line destroyed me… and for the final line I went with “Don’t be afraid” but I also looked for the I love you option. I told her to shoot Lee in line with all the previous advices and so she would never see him as a zombie
Also, Telltale usually gets the voice acting right but this, maybe because of the dramatic setting, felt really amazing. Great job with the actress that played Clem.
I am not a big fan of the game for many different reasons, mainly the lack of actual gameplay.
But even when accepting the game for what it is, about the story and the choises you make, then i still found it very annoying that the choises don’t have more influence on that story. And im not just talking about the ending, eg early in the game you have to choose who you are going to save, but it doesn’t take long before the one you saved dies anyway, so what is the point of choosing if they are both doomed, and neither will realy play any part in the story?
Telltale creates an illusion that your choises matter, but if you replay the game, and make all the opposite choises, then you will discover that it actually only has a small influence on the story.
By lack of “gameplay”, I guess you mean lack of traditional inventory puzzles, because there was a ton of gameplay. From walking around and talking to people, making decisions, quick time events, small amount of traditional puzzles and action.
As for your other point. It’s the illusion of choice that matter. If you played it from start to finish, sticking to your choice then the illusion holds.
Sure if you are going back and dissect the game and poking at all the choices then the illusion will fall away.
That’s the same for virtually EVERY video game that provides choices. Mass Effect series did a similar save game carry over on a bigger scale, but you still ended up 3 games later at the same ending no matter what the choices were.
As multiple people have said it’s about the journey, the small and large changes that each player chooses to steer their story in that provides the illusion that you are altering the world, but in a zombie apolcalypse it’s all inevitable and you are only prolonging your fate.
I too am little dissapointed by choices that really don’t bend the narrative and gameplay on rails. Game being nominated for game of the year is little unfair IMO, there is hardly any gameplay involved, its simply point A to point B compounded with heavy checkpoints before action scenes which themselves are either targeting cross hair or bad repetitve quick time events. Puzzles show you locations to investigate and are easy as hell to guess.
Heavy rain had challenging QTEs like in Powerplant level, gameplay variation like powerplant tunnel scene, VR investigations, hand to hand fights etc and outcomes which can actually define the upcoming chapters and characters can die affecting the whole rest of the game not to mention 10+ endings.
MassEffect too offer variations , i missed out Wrex and Legion in ME3, the whole chunk of Samara was missing and so on.
Walking dead is essentialy choose your own adventure with minimal input and fixed outcomes , what i feel that lack of good storytelling in videogames have overwhelmed
masses , a genuine effort by Telltale games but its only the storytelling and writing that is excellent. Gameplay and choices are underwhelming and it would be disservice to nominate it as GOTY against all other games that have actual gameplay.
Heck UnfinishedSwan had more interesting gameplay than either Journey or Walking Dead.
Also i felt that majority of storytelling moments revolved around typical Shock value of killing, extreme gore and random deaths. Not too different from Hollywood flicks cliched recipe for horror.
By lack of “gameplay”, I guess you mean lack of traditional inventory puzzles, because there was a ton of gameplay. From walking around and talking to people, making decisions, quick time events, small amount of traditional puzzles and action.
No i dont just mean lack of traditional inventory puzzles, i mean lack of gameplay at all. Nomadsoul really explained what i meant here:
there is hardly any gameplay involved, its simply point A to point B compounded with heavy checkpoints before action scenes which themselves are either targeting cross hair or bad repetitve quick time events. Puzzles show you locations to investigate and are easy as hell to guess.
Anyway that is as such fine, when i bought the game i knew it would be light on gameplay. (Though i didn’t knew it would be this light)
As for your other point. It’s the illusion of choice that matter. If you played it from start to finish, sticking to your choice then the illusion holds.
Sure if you are going back and dissect the game and poking at all the choices then the illusion will fall away.
I disagree that the illusion holds, at least it didn’t for me, and that is the problem.
When i startet playing the game, i belived that my choises would make a difference, but already somewhere in the middel of the game i could see that the choises didn’t make much difference, and it became more and more obvious the more i played.
My point here is really, that this game is all about the Story and the Decisions you make, but if the Decisions doesn’t make any difference, then only the Story is left, and that is simply not enough, at least not for me.
I mean how hard would it have been, to make some small changes in the ending, depending on your choises during the game?
And if the morale of the story is, that nothing you do matters, and it will all end the same way, then it is not a morale that i like.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I’m not sure people realize what the word gameplay actually means. Movement, dialouge, interacting with objects, QT events, everything you do in game is gameplay. If there was no gameplay it would be an animated movie. It is light on different ‘elements’ of gameplay but thats simply the type of game this is and of course its perfectly fine to dislike that but i don’t think a game requires lots of different types of gameplay in order to be better or as good as those that do.
I would argue that its like suggesting a romantic drama shouldn’t get as high a rating than a romantic comedy because it didn’t have any comedy in it.
As for the morale you say you don’t like well..you realize that’s life don’t you? We can make many different choices along the way that changes our experience for good or ill but we still end up with the same ending. That point was made really very well in the comic and i recommend reading them if you havn’t already. WE are the walking dead, no matter what choices we make in life, no matter how rich, how poor, how much good or bad we do we’re all gonna die, we’re the walking dead and that’s why it’s the journey that matters and not the ending.
Gameplay is a stupid word to begin with anyway. It’s like saying bookread or moviewatch. It’s redundant, you might as well be saying the game lacks actual game.
What we should be discussing are the mechanics, the flow, the control. QTEs are a horrible, cheap mechanic that are about as immersive as pressing play on a DVD player.
Whats funny is that this game can be converted into Youtube with Rich media and
same emotional punch intact. Thats the bottomline.
Just finished the season, and it was hands down the best game I played this year. It actually made me sob, something that no other game has done to me, ever.
I don’t really care too much about “gameplay” by now, as long as it supports the story, doesn’t get in the way and allows you to actually make changes in the world. This is definitely the case in TWD. Most purely mechanic-driven games are a bore to me, even more so if they offer “hundreds of hours of gameplay”. I don’t have time nor motivation for those. From this perspective, TWD was the best thing that could happen to me. It had me by the throat from the first minutes, until the very end.
I never read the comics, and while I enjoy the TV series, I find it to be way less appealing, and way worse written than TWD by Telltale. Having been listening to Idle Thumbs for years, I’m glad to see the very people I respect the most in the game industry were able to create something of their own, something different from the usual, muddy and unbelievable storyline.
It’s not without flaws, the engine and the lack of polish (in all departments) being the worst offenders, but I’m confident the designers behind TWD made the best out of the available budget and tight schedule. My only hope is that for the second season, more resources can be allocated to it (and, of course, for the story line to stay as gripping and well written).
Whats funny is that this game can be converted into Youtube with Rich media and
same emotional punch intact. Thats the bottomline.
I think you are wrong, but your point proves what exactly?
I’ve watched youtube playthroughs for all sorts of games from Deus Ex to Walking Dead and they have been different from my own personal playthrough, but they capture some of the memories and story beats from the game in question, but it’s not the same emotions.
I have watch Hannah from the Yogcast playthrough Walking Dead and her playthrough is slightly different from mine in that she made different decisions. There is an obvious disconnect when she is making some of the big decisions, mainly because you are watching it from a outsider point of view. Making those choices yourself in the timeframe and in the moment is alot more impactful and emotional because you are doing the choosing, you are responsible.
An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
Roberta Williams
Whats funny is that this game can be converted into Youtube with Rich media and
same emotional punch intact. Thats the bottomline.I think you are wrong, but your point proves what exactly?
I’ve watched youtube playthroughs for all sorts of games from Deus Ex to Walking Dead and they have been different from my own personal playthrough, but they capture some of the memories and story beats from the game in question, but it’s not the same emotions.
I have watch Hannah from the Yogcast playthrough Walking Dead and her playthrough is slightly different from mine in that she made different decisions. There is an obvious disconnect when she is making some of the big decisions, mainly because you are watching it from a outsider point of view. Making those choices yourself in the timeframe and in the moment is alot more impactful and emotional because you are doing the choosing, you are responsible.
That is the question you have to ask yourself, your memories coming from script, lines, aural , visual sense or they are coming from game mechanics. If not game mechanics then its basically sensation like movies and you are passive gamer IMO. For me the satisfaction lies in more control and challenge specially. Walking dead is capitalizing on story, moments where you interact in minimal fashion, autopilot puzzles that needs little to no challenge, and that game mechanic can be translated easily on Youtube Rich media, in which interactive buttons can guide the whole experience, to some extent some guy did it for Heavy rain but the whole game isn’t possible however in TWD it can be , you missed the point i said Rich media not watching it.
Read this, food for thought
http://www.theastronauts.com/2012/11/why-we-need-to-kill-gameplay-to-make-better-games/
That is the question you have to ask yourself, your memories coming from script, lines, aural , visual sense or they are coming from game mechanics. If not game mechanics then its basically sensation like movies and you are passive gamer IMO.
Huh? Yes, the stuff I liked in The Walking Dead came from the script, the story, the atmosphere, the emotions the game evoked in me—not from the “game mechanics” per se.* But no, it was NOT a sensation like watching a movie, far from it. I felt like I was driving it. I had some control over the journey, as opposed to sitting back and watching the show, like I would with a movie. If I’m making things happen, to me that’s active, not passive.
In adventure games (and any genre, really) I’ve always cared much more about story than puzzles. That doesn’t mean I’d rather watch a movie than play a game… or that I can’t tell the difference between the two. 
To you, it may feel too passive and no better than watching a movie, but clearly it doesn’t feel that way for everyone.
*Unless you consider things like interactive dialogues, exploration, action sequences that had you fighting for your life or fighting to save another party member’s life, etc. to be game mechanics. Which I do.
Regardless of how much we like or dislike this game, i think we can all agree that the game doesn’t provide many challenges, or?
Either way, the reason i posted my previous post, was not to discuss the lack of gameplay, it was because i became very disappointed, with the one thing that i initially believed was good in this game, the decisions you had to make. Once i realised that they didn’t actually matter, then i felt it excatly like i was watching a movie, and not playing a game.
As for the morale you say you don’t like well..you realize that’s life don’t you? We can make many different choices along the way that changes our experience for good or ill but we still end up with the same ending. That point was made really very well in the comic and i recommend reading them if you havn’t already. WE are the walking dead, no matter what choices we make in life, no matter how rich, how poor, how much good or bad we do we’re all gonna die, we’re the walking dead and that’s why it’s the journey that matters and not the ending.
I find this to be a very defeatist point of view.
Just because we inevitably all die in the end, then it dosen’t mean that what we do, and the choises we make, doesn’t matter. It might not matter to us when we are dead, but it might matter to others that live on after we are dead.
Sure life is a journey, but it is not a journey we are making alone.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
The amount of watching cutscenes also increased, i was happy with first 2 episodes, there was creativity in interaction with hide and seek,peeking and running around, shooting , scavenging, taking cover behind the cart and some stealth etc. after that gradually TTG failed to tie in new gameplay situations with narrative. It became repititve after that.
Also i like illusion of choices if executed smartly, like in episode 2 and 3, we cannot solve problems and accidents by negotiating conflicting opinions in group, in real life many times we cannot, but again in last chapter after all we went through some things were totally and terribly forced rendering suspense of episode 3 and 4 meaningless and the
forced part felt unatural and infact nonsensical.
Puzzles too became cake, ok we have to find something to get across, explore area which is filled with invisible walls and fixed camera, basically on rails walk around, first few objects will solve the issue. And thats it. Solution is walking around and hunting
easy items.
In HeavyRain again, in VR investigation there can be missing clues, all clues and wrong investigation and all clues right investigation, just one casual puzzle still 3 outcomes decides the ending bits, i was expecting atleast that type of choice that can actually affect outcome depending upon our progress of hunting clues and our inference. Infact the investigation part could be totally missed if we die as jayden in earlier scenarios. Thats not illusion at all and thats not Walking Dead.
You are here: Home → Forum Home → Gaming → Adventure → Thread
