• Log In | Sign Up

  • News
  • Reviews
  • Games Database
  • Game Discovery
  • Search
  • New Releases
  • Forums

Adventure Gamers - Forums

Welcome to Adventure Gamers. Please Sign In or Join Now to post.

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Site & Forum Feedback → Thread



   

Nancy Drew Message in a Haunted Manor flashback review

Total Posts: 828

Joined 2004-01-06

PM

Jackal - 03 November 2015 12:41 AM

You mean the big blatant heading right beside the title calling it a “Flashback review” isn’t enough of a hint?

I’m talking about patently obvious common sense things that don’t need to be spelled out—we don’t expect an old game to look as crisp as a new one; we don’t expect newer gameplay or technical refinements to be present in games that predated them, etc.

Graphics, gameplay, and technical refinements aren’t the issue here.
Compared to other games that were available in year 2000, even restricted to other 1st person Windows games from the 1990’s through 2000, Haunted Mansion is mediocre. Compared to Zork Nemesis, the Journeyman Project games, and many others, Haunted Mansion is not a standout.

Origami - 02 November 2015 04:24 PM

Actually there’s something to be said for rating apples against apples rather than against oranges.
“Compared to other Nancy Drew games” might be a useful indicator somewhere in the review.

I disagree. Just rate the game by the same standards as others(or at least attempt to).

I wasn’t suggesting the game be graded differently than other adventure games. I was suggesting the text of the review compare the game to other Nancy Drews—something that couldn’t have been done back in 2000 but is possible in 2015.

If you do a search for Nancy Drew at AG, you get a list something like this (assuming the link works)
That “should” provide an “at a glance” overview of which games in the series might be the better ones—within a star grade anyway.
So I agree with Origami and IMO the grade for Haunted Mansion is out of line with the rest of the Nancy Drew grades.

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1161

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

Origami, no problem! Feeback away! I’ve said many times that the more differing views on games, the better. That gives a much better-rounded view of a game than any one person’s take—or even a bunch of people agreeing with each other.

It’ll never make me question our reviewers’ opinions or credibility, though. Nor should it. No two people will ever have the same tastes and preferences, so they will never experience the same game the same way.

crabapple - 03 November 2015 11:00 AM

Graphics, gameplay, and technical refinements aren’t the issue here.
Compared to other games that were available in year 2000, even restricted to other 1st person Windows games from the 1990’s through 2000, Haunted Mansion is mediocre. Compared to Zork Nemesis, the Journeyman Project games, and many others, Haunted Mansion is not a standout.

My response had nothing to do with this review in particular, but flashback reviews in general.

If you think Haunted Mansion is mediocre, fine by me. I suspect I’d probably even agree with you if I played it. Clearly our reviewer thought differently. Their job is only to explain why, not convince anyone to change their mind.

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

Jackal - 03 November 2015 01:49 PM

Their job is only to explain why, not convince anyone to change their mind.

But how can ones mind be changed if you don’t have an opinion about a game to start with.

Reviews can do two things for a reader:

-Introduce him to a game
-Challenge his thoughts on a game


The danger lies in the foremost.

 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1161

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

I was replying to someone who already did have an opinion. Obviously that doesn’t apply to those who don’t.

There’s no “danger” here except for the danger inherent in any review in existence: it’s ultimately only one person’s experience. 

If you or crabapple had written this review instead, you’d have painted a picture of a so-so game that isn’t worth wasting money on. And if this reviewer were the reader, your opinion would have cheated her out of a game she would have very much enjoyed. (If she took your opinion as the sole word on the matter.) How is that any less “dangerous”?

See, this is why we have user reviews. Smile

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

Jackal - 03 November 2015 02:47 PM

I was replying to someone who already did have an opinion. Obviously that doesn’t apply to those who don’t.

There’s no “danger” here except for the danger inherent in any review in existence: it’s ultimately only one person’s experience. 

If you or crabapple had written this review instead, you’d have painted a picture of a so-so game that isn’t worth wasting money on. And if this reviewer were the reader, your opinion would have cheated her out of a game she would have very much enjoyed. (If she took your opinion as the sole word on the matter.) How is that any less “dangerous”?

See, this is why we have user reviews. Smile


First of, I would never mention ‘waste money on’ in a review I would write lol.
Secondly I am not that vindictive. This game would deserve a 2-2.5 imo.
I think that’s an accurate score. It makes clear to adventure game fanatics that this gaming experience can be easily skipped, and leaves Nancy Drew fans with good enough of a rating to check it out.

The problem with the user reviews is that they don’t appear on the main site.
Heck, I have been visiting the forum for four years and I didn’t even realize there were any.

 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 4323

Joined 2012-03-24

PM

Origami - 03 November 2015 05:21 PM
Jackal - 03 November 2015 02:47 PM

I was replying to someone who already did have an opinion. Obviously that doesn’t apply to those who don’t.

There’s no “danger” here except for the danger inherent in any review in existence: it’s ultimately only one person’s experience. 

If you or crabapple had written this review instead, you’d have painted a picture of a so-so game that isn’t worth wasting money on. And if this reviewer were the reader, your opinion would have cheated her out of a game she would have very much enjoyed. (If she took your opinion as the sole word on the matter.) How is that any less “dangerous”?

See, this is why we have user reviews. Smile

....I am not that vindictive….....

I am going to make a daring statement now, but this is how adamant I am in my opinion concering controversy of this review.

I know the reviewer to be one of two things:
1. A Nancy Drew fan
2. A casual gamer that barely scraped the surface of the adventure game genre

There is a third option but out of proper decorum I will put it in spoiler tags and should only be read if reviewer doesn’t fall under above two mentioned options
Offered money by HerInteractive for positive exposure

I hate to think what you’re like when you strive to be vindictive Origami & find your personal attack on the reviewer highly offensive. 

 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

I hate to think what you’re like when you strive to be vindictive Origami & find your overblown self-opinionated presumptuous personal attack on the reviewer highly offensive. 

 

I have missed you too Chrissy.


It wasn’t a personal attack on the reviewer.
Those were just the possibilities I was left with. No other way around it.
Reviewer in my opinion could be a great person in real life, I am just stating the possible scenarios.

EDIT: Fine, I’ll edit my post.

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 321

Joined 2003-09-12

PM

Origami - 03 November 2015 05:21 PM

The problem with the user reviews is that they don’t appear on the main site.

Except they do. Go back to the review in question - I currently see a review Crabapple has submitted right there, beneath the average user rating stars.

     

Now Playing: 999, A Plague Tale: Innocence, Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Recently Completed: Gears 5, Devil May Cry 5, Control, The Lego Movie 2 Videogame, Rage 2, Life is Strange 2 - Episode 4
Anticipating: Beyond Good and Evil 2, The Last of Us Part 2
Backing: Asylum, Psychonauts 2

Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

Dale - 03 November 2015 06:18 PM
Origami - 03 November 2015 05:21 PM

The problem with the user reviews is that they don’t appear on the main site.

Except they do. Go back to the review in question - I currently see a review Crabapple has submitted right there, beneath the average user rating stars.

Thank you.

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1161

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

Origami - 03 November 2015 05:21 PM

First of, I would never mention ‘waste money on’ in a review I would write lol.
Secondly I am not that vindictive. This game would deserve a 2-2.5 imo.
I think that’s an accurate score. It makes clear to adventure game fanatics that this gaming experience can be easily skipped, and leaves Nancy Drew fans with good enough of a rating to check it out.

Of course you wouldn’t. That’s completely irrelevant to the point, which you proved immediately afterwards.

The problem with the user reviews is that they don’t appear on the main site.
Heck, I have been visiting the forum for four years and I didn’t even realize there were any.

They have been from the day they were implemented years ago. Not sure how you managed to miss them. Or at least, the option has always been there. If no one leaves any, there won’t be any to actually read. I expect to see yours with crabapple’s soon for this game.

Anyway, this has grown tiresome so I’ll repeat this one final time. There is absolutely ZERO “controversy” with this review. Someone has an opinion. You have a different one. Other people inevitably have different opinions than both of you. Life moves on all around. Vive la difference!

The notion that one view of a game is right and others are wrong is beyond silly. I’ll never understand the insecurity of people who can’t accept that perfectly reasonable, clear-thinking and well-intentioned people actually—gasp!—disagree with them on matters of taste! Attempting to demean those other people for it is even worse.

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

Jackal - 04 November 2015 02:56 PM

The notion that one view of a game is right and others are wrong is beyond silly. I’ll never understand the insecurity of people who can’t accept that perfectly reasonable, clear-thinking and well-intentioned people actually—gasp!—disagree with them on matters of taste! Attempting to demean those other people for it is even worse.

Nothing to do with insecurity. Just held this place in high regard and didn’t expect this. But it’s obvious the philosophy of the website is a bit different from what I expected. That’s alright. I still have a lot of respect for the work you guys are doing here.

But if my thread served any purpose the fact that numerous people are bringing up a possible Nancy Drew scale should set off some alarms.

And my apologies for possibly offending the reviewer. But my criticism on her review in no way reflects my opinion of her. I know that like anyone else Nancy Drew fans are possibly great people too.

 

 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 112

Joined 2013-08-10

PM

Origami - 04 November 2015 06:05 PM

... it’s obvious the philosophy of the website is a bit different from what I expected…

I’m sincerely curious as to what you thought AG’s “philosophy” is, actually. It would help me to understand why this review has you so concerned.

All of the below is my opinion only, and does not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of other AdventureGamers staff.

From my own experience writing for the site (both modern games and flashbacks) I can tell you that there are no separate grading scales for games of any kind. Does that mean that I let dated graphics or unavoidable age-related technical issues downgrade the score that I had planned to give a game already? No. Would a modern game be afforded that same courtesy? No, but the severity of the downgrade (if there is one) entirely depends on what the issues are and their overall effect on the game.

As to Courtney’s opinion that Haunted Mansion is worth 4.5 stars, GameBoomers (another site that was/is well-respected within the community) gave the game a B+ rating, so that 4.5 stars really isn’t looking too off the mark to me. I probably wouldn’t care for the game, myself, but if it were really as good as these reviewers say it is, my own review would likely fall in that range somewhere, too.

EDIT: Even if it didn’t however, I don’t think that’s any cause for alarm. She loved the game, I might not.

I also don’t think one should base their purchasing decisions on just one opinion (which is, in fact, all a review is, no matter what). The entirety of the ‘net is at people’s disposal. Find multiple perspectives on a game before you buy. That’s what I do, if I’m not sure about a prospective title.

     

K R Parkinson - Staff Writer
Webmaster: www.GalvanicSpiral.com and www.WriteFullCircle.com

Avatar

Total Posts: 1161

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

Origami - 04 November 2015 06:05 PM

Nothing to do with insecurity. Just held this place in high regard and didn’t expect this. But it’s obvious the philosophy of the website is a bit different from what I expected. That’s alright. I still have a lot of respect for the work you guys are doing here.

Our “philosophy” is to have reviewers honestly evaluate and detail their experience of a game. Period. Anyone who thinks those evaluations should conveniently conform to their own personal opinions of the same game is, frankly, clueless.

But if my thread served any purpose the fact that numerous people are bringing up a possible Nancy Drew scale should set off some alarms.

The only alarm going off now is the troll alarm. As has been made staggeringly clear to you already, there IS no “scale” for individual games or series. That you’re still insisting there is only makes you a nuisance that’s every bit as wrong now as you were the first time.

We’re done here.

Galvanic_Spiral - 04 November 2015 09:53 PM

I also don’t think one should base their purchasing decisions on just one opinion (which is, in fact, all a review is, no matter what). The entirety of the ‘net is at people’s disposal. Find multiple perspectives on a game before you buy. That’s what I do, if I’m not sure about a prospective title.

Not only should people most definitely check out multiple opinions, but they should seek out opinions with differing views. Because there always are, for every game.

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

Avatar

Total Posts: 1206

Joined 2009-08-06

PM

Our “philosophy” is to have reviewers honestly evaluate and detail their experience of a game. Period. Anyone who thinks those evaluations should conveniently conform to their own personal opinions of the same game is, frankly, clueless.

So honest evaluation is the only prerequisite here? What about experience within the genre?

Jackal - 05 November 2015 12:27 AM

The only alarm going off now is the troll alarm. As has been made staggeringly clear to you already, there IS no “scale” for individual games or series. That you’re still insisting there is only makes you a nuisance that’s every bit as wrong now as you were the first time.

We’re done here.

 

I am not saying you guys are employing a Nancy Drew scale, but the fact that people are cbringing up the possibility is slightly troubling.

Galvanic_Spiral - 04 November 2015 09:53 PM

I also don’t think one should base their purchasing decisions on just one opinion (which is, in fact, all a review is, no matter what). The entirety of the ‘net is at people’s disposal. Find multiple perspectives on a game before you buy. That’s what I do, if I’m not sure about a prospective title.

Jackal - 05 November 2015 12:27 AM

Not only should people most definitely check out multiple opinions, but they should seek out opinions with differing views. Because there always are, for every game.


You make a valid argument about how purchases shouldn’t be based off of one review and in the majority of the situations I would agree with you. But here is the thing: I don’t regard AG in the same vein as others, because most review outlets aren’t as generous to adventure games, if they even bother to review the game in the first place at all. If I would have to put equal weight on other reviews I probably would rarely be playing any adventure games nowadays. And then you have another group of amateur reviewers who write reviews for fun and find good things in every adventure game they play because their ulterior motive is to promote the genre and possibly revive it. AG always hit that happy medium for me where the website is obviously run by adventure game pundits and are aware of the evolvement over time and what the genre has gone through but are still able to provide very proffesional reviews and opinions.  I think you guys are underestimating your position in the market and responsibility. For a lot of people AG is the go-to website for numerous reasons.

But indeed it might have been my mistake to think that because of a 4.5/5 star rating
and a very generous review by a prominent and respected adventure game website this game would turn out to be a classic.

 

@Galvanic_Spiral

I will get back with you

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 4323

Joined 2012-03-24

PM

Origami - 03 November 2015 06:12 PM

I hate to think what you’re like when you strive to be vindictive Origami….... & find your ............personal attack on the reviewer highly offensive. 

 

It wasn’t a personal attack on the reviewer.
Those were just the possibilities I was left with. No other way around it.
Reviewer in my opinion could be a great person in real life, I am just stating the possible scenarios.

EDIT: Fine, I’ll edit my post.

Thankyou! & I’ve edited out my ‘personal’ attacks on you.

But YES it was a personal attack on a reviewer as you didn’t think the game was worthy of such a high rating so you decided that it was because the reviewer was either a Nancy Drew fan, liked casual games or was being paid by HER Interactive.  You couldn’t entertain the idea that actually it was a well produced very entertaining & structured game that was actually aimed at ‘Adventurous girls 10 and up’ & deserving of that score. 

I don’t get why after 30+ Nancy Drew games & you mentioning that you review games that you have been oblivious to the nature & style of even 1 single ND game yet you chose to buy this game based on the 4.5 rating?

I played the game years ago one of the 1st 2 ND games I played & I don’t find anything wrong with the review – it doesn’t profess the game to be a classic & if it gets the same rating as some of those that you mentioned that are regarded as classics in my mind it’s down to the fact that as a game it works almost as perfectly as they do - a high score doesn’t make any game a classic & I feel that anyone should check out a number of reviews if you’re not sure about whether you would like the game.

A game getting a higher score than you may agree with is far less problematic in my mind than a reasonable game that doesn’t get the scoring – I personally will try any game that I like the premise of even if it only gets one star but I know that a lot of players who go by review scores won’t touch it which can hit the sales of that game even though as I’ve found some of the low scoring games have proved to have more about them than reviews promote. 

 

     

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Site & Forum Feedback → Thread

Welcome to the Adventure Gamers forums!