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You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Chit Chat → Thread


   

Should support of an artist be influenced by their beliefs/attitudes?

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Why was my post removed? It was perfectly civil. And it was on subject. I will start up a new thread then. Jackal, I can read very well, and I was simply trying to take part in the discussion about TenNapel. I would appreciate a private note or something, rather than a “some people obviously can’t read.”

But I will gladly abide by the moderator’s wishes. For those who want to continue discussing the shameful vilification of Doug TenNapel, there is a new thread here:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forums/viewthread/2047/

     
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Jackal - 06 June 2013 08:56 PM
Blackthorne - 06 June 2013 04:02 PM

You know, someone mentioned way earlier a bit about supporting people that support others.  I do often check that before I support a KS project.  I tend to want to support people who have helped others when they needed it.

It’s a valid consideration, though of course one must be very careful about jumping to conclusions. The implication of the previous post was that Doug TenNapel was more generous than Tim Schafer because Pencil Test Studios has backed several projects and Double Fine had backed none. That completely ignores the fact that TenNapel doesn’t work for Pencil Test, and that Double Fine is a company of 50-plus people, and has no bearing on what any of its individual staffers might be contributing personally.

 

Yes, of course you have to consider things like that - definitely when it comes to more “independent” Kickstarters.  For example, I’ve seen one recently that was started by some individuals that haven’t backed any, and as a result - I’m hesitant to give them any support - combining that with the fact that their game looks amateurish and quite sub-par.  It definitely played into my thought process on whether or not to back them.


Bt

     
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Quest1, most of your post had nothing to do with TenNapel; it was nothing more than a continuation of your own ongoing rant against opposing views of your position. And this thread isn’t even about TenNapel, as both TimovieMan and I both stated clearly. No need for private notes when everyone was given the same instructions.

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

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Actually, my post was about the shameful smearing of TenNapel. Just want to correct you on that.

I have more questions for discussion: if someone is bothered by an artist’s beliefs and attitudes, is it acceptable for them to try to damage the reputation and career of the artist? When is it acceptable to do such a thing? Is it ever acceptable? These are general questions related to the topic of this thread and aren’t about any one person or issue.

     
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A few anonymous posts by some fat middle-aged “keyboard warrior” isn’t going to ruin anyone’s reputation. That’s obvious by how well Doug’s project is doing right now. And look, this is the internet. No matter what the topic, there will always be people posting stupid, rude, “shameful” stuff. Trying to take these people to task is like complaining about the cockroaches which show up when you leave food on the floor - pointless.

     
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aries323 - 06 June 2013 02:23 PM

I’ve found the ending (all three of the endings) of the Shivah offensive, because the Rabbi clearly does not want his daugther (I think was his daugther?) to marry a gentile, a non-jew. And since this goes against my own personal philosophy that race and skin colour shouldn’t really matter when it comes to matters of the heart (love), I decided not to buy any more games from Wadjet Eye Games. And even if the message perhaps weren’t clear as crystal, it still permeated through the actions the Shivah took in all three endings.

Thank you for answering my question aries323 & I am astounded! You seem to have blurred, no, actually erased a clear line between a talented & witty man & his work in which he gently pokes fun at religious leaders of the Jewish faith & is a humorous observation of traditional beliefs/attitudes that do exist! The fact is that an equivalent game could have been made substituting The Rabbi for any representative of many other religions that don’t approve of mixed marriages! I didn’t see any ‘hidden’ message in the game to promote these beliefs/attitudes or the slightest hint that the developer supports them!   

As for my questions about actor/actresses, let’s make it a playwright then. Was Orson Welles a lousier director because he turned out to be gay? Or was the Norwegian writer Knut Hamsun a lousier writer because he had a fascination of fascism/nazism and Hitler?
And should we not read Knut Hamsun anymore?

Is Dave Gilbert a lousier developer because he made 1 game about a Rabbi who objected to a mixed faith marriage. And should we not play any of his other games?

Personally I agree that race and skin colour shouldn’t really matter when it comes to matters of the heart but disagreement with it less offensive than someone who supports nazism.

 

 

 

     
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Also, his objection to the mixed-race marriage helped define that characters pig-headedness and his flaws.  I found the end when Rajshree came to his flock to be the optimistic ending. 

I think you’ve misinterpreted that game Aries.  Also, you could probably talk to Dave Gilbert about it directly if you had a problem with it - he’s a very nice and approachable gentleman.  You’re missing out, because WadjetEye has released some of the best adventure games of the last 7 years.


Bt

     
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Oscar - 06 June 2013 11:49 PM

A few anonymous posts by some fat middle-aged “keyboard warrior” isn’t going to ruin anyone’s reputation. That’s obvious by how well Doug’s project is doing right now. And look, this is the internet. No matter what the topic, there will always be people posting stupid, rude, “shameful” stuff. Trying to take these people to task is like complaining about the cockroaches which show up when you leave food on the floor - pointless.

First of all, I want to say that I am not referring to anybody specifically, since I was reprimanded and told that this thread is not to discuss a particular person. So, please know that the rest of my comment applies to a hypothetical case.

Anyway, I think you underestimate the damage that can be done by even a few news stories, especially when you throw in inflammatory details like accusations of racism or bigotry. Calling someone a “bigot” or “racist” is a unique insult, in that it has the effect of toxifiying the person and making them appear as someone responsible people should have nothing to do with. Many people will not take the time to learn the context or the full story, and will just hear, “oh, isn’t that so-and-so a terrible racist?” Those insults stick.  When accusations of “bigotry” (even if the accusations are unfair, cheap smears) are legitimized by well-read news blogs and other sites, the problem becomes worse and can go viral and never goes away. That’s why I think we should be more careful about carelessly throwing around such defamatory and damaging slurs. Unfortunately, such tactics work, which is why they’re used. If someone finds him/herself having to respond to charges of racism/bigotry, the damage has already been done.

I think the worse thing that can be done is to ignore it. It is never pointless to speak out against something you know is wrong. And that is something I plan to always do. Otherwise you would just be giving in to the bullies.

Also, switching gears, I just want to mention that I can’t stand when an artist doesn’t take time out to appreciate the devoted fans. That is one unappealing attitude that would make me think twice about supporting a particular artist’s work in the future. Fortunately, all the adventure game developers that I’ve seen and interacted with online seem very appreciated of their fan base.

     
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Guys you might want to check this,

http://kotaku.com/game-gets-gay-marriage-because-kickstarter-511794995


This can open another argument.

     
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nomadsoul - 07 June 2013 09:40 AM

Guys you might want to check this,

http://kotaku.com/game-gets-gay-marriage-because-kickstarter-511794995


This can open another argument.

I’m surprised the article suggested a publisher wouldn’t have done this. Has been common for years to see same-sex stuff in games. Why credit “Kickstarter” with this? Seems like this could be a result of simply listening to general fan feedback. Also is kind of funny and groan-worthy that the guy says he felt so terrible for not thinking of this himself. Has to express requisite guilt for his hetero privilege, don’t you know. Anyway, this almost seems like a non-story.

 

     
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Quest1 - 07 June 2013 09:54 AM

Also is kind of funny and groan-worthy that the guy says he felt so terrible for not thinking of this himself. Has to express requisite guilt for his hetero privilege, don’t you know. Anyway, this almost seems like a non-story.

More of your fine not-anti-gay attitude on display, eh?

     
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That will be the last troll post from Quest1. And since the off-topic posts are clearly going to continue and this thread seems to have run its course, that’ll be the end of the discussion as well.

Thanks to almost everyone for the spirited exchange and great input.

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

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