Adventure Gamers - Forums

I have been thinking about how different some new adventure games are to the classics. I mean, Syberia: The World Before felt much more like a minimally interactive movie than a game. I enjoyed it for what it was, but damn I miss me some inventory puzzles. I know that times have changed and there are few large-scale point & click titles. As such, what constitutes an adventure game - I think - is much more liberal than perhaps it used to be. I was wondering what older games would pass for an adventure game today. Games like The Void or Outcast definitely have a lot of ambience and a sense of adventure, despite combat mechanics. Obviously QFG straddled genres. What are some other good examples?

I feel like Beyond Good & Evil might qualify under modern circumstances.

I love Beyond Good and Evil although I highly doubt we will ever get the sequel

Charophycean - 27 February 2024 04:37 PM

I never really got the classification of RPGs. Whenever I played them the defining features seemed to be 1) stats and 2) battles, yet the wiki definition is:

A role-playing game (sometimes spelled roleplaying game,[1][2] or abbreviated as RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making regarding character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]

This almost describes many adventure games where you get to make a lot of dialogue choices that other characters respond to. Considering Disco Elysium is pinned as an adventure (which I agree with 100%) it seems more like the only reason the older RPGs aren’t seen as adventure games is the battles, but what are turn-based battles if not puzzles?

I do think there’s a decent argument for turn based RPGs as adventure games because there is a puzzle element in them. especially if the game actually cares about Buffs and debuffs and status effects, which most RPGs have, but only some games actually use the mechanics while others treat it as just an afterthought. For instance I love the potion selections and puzzle elements of combat in The Witcher 1 and 2 but that basically got taken out and very streamlined for The Witcher 3, sadly.

However these days there’s just as many real time action based RPGs, where there’s combos, and quick reflexes are needed, for example Dark Souls. Since RPGs are my second favorite genre, I have had this discussion a lot too, when it comes to the genre. because a lot of games that are classified as an RPG are actually third person action games with very light RPG elements in them. or the game series has morphed over time, for example both The Witcher and Mass Effect were first and foremost an RPG, but by the time we got to the third installment of each game, they turned into action adventure games, with very light RPG elements left in them. especially Mass Effect, Mass Effect 1 was a more traditional RPG, Mass Effect 3 was a third person cover shooter more akin to uncharted than the RPG that came before it.

Definitely agree about some turn-based RPGs. I suppose it might depend on how heavily or obfuscated the RNG process is. I thought Disco Elysium was very transparent - if I failed a check I was confident what it was attributable to (my point allocation or bad luck). I agree Disco Elysium felt like an adventure and was accessible enough that really there was no reaction-time threshold prohibiting progress - cannot say the same for Witcher 3 (just need to add that I hated the combat in Witcher 2, but didn’t mind Witcher 1’s rock-paper-scissors combat). Of course, if we naturally extend your point about turn-based RPGs, we’d include Fallout 1&2 and Divinity: Original Sin 1&2. I completely agree about the puzzle-like quality of (some of these) combat scenarios. D:OS1 had a very satisfying combat puzzle system - though D:OS2 became much more about location on the terrain and at the onset of the fight. Baldur’s Gate 2, in the Beam Dog version (not sure about original) had a story mode - which really makes the game narrative focused, very much like an adventure game. When do statistics deviate from a large-scale puzzle? I suppose it goes back to how random is too disruptive for an adventure game?

IronCretin - 27 February 2024 07:49 PM

Definitely agree about some turn-based RPGs. I suppose it might depend on how heavily or obfuscated the RNG process is. I thought Disco Elysium was very transparent - if I failed a check I was confident what it was attributable to (my point allocation or bad luck). I agree Disco Elysium felt like an adventure and was accessible enough that really there was no reaction-time threshold prohibiting progress - cannot say the same for Witcher 3 (just need to add that I hated the combat in Witcher 2, but didn’t mind Witcher 1’s rock-paper-scissors combat). Of course, if we naturally extend your point about turn-based RPGs, we’d include Fallout 1&2 and Divinity: Original Sin 1&2. I completely agree about the puzzle-like quality of (some of these) combat scenarios. D:OS1 had a very satisfying combat puzzle system - though D:OS2 became much more about location on the terrain and at the onset of the fight. Baldur’s Gate 2, in the Beam Dog version (not sure about original) had a story mode - which really makes the game narrative focused, very much like an adventure game. When do statistics deviate from a large-scale puzzle? I suppose it goes back to how random is too disruptive for an adventure game?

Also includes almost all jrpgs before western influence. Everything from old final fantasy, to dragon quest, grandia, skies of arcadia, whole trails of series, persona, etc…

Funny, I was just yesterday browsing through an old console game magazine and one review caught my eye.

They had reviewed Medal of Honor and its genre label was adventure.
The actual review text referred to it as “shooting adventure”. As it was used twice in two different places, it can’t be a mistake.

The magazine was published in the year 2000, so labelling something unexpected as adventure isn’t really a new thing. And I guess I can see where they were going with that, they probably meant that the game had more plot than most console shooters at that point had.

But even so, that felt wrong to me, even though I am more flexible with the term than many people are.

GateKeeper - 28 February 2024 02:19 AM

Funny, I was just yesterday browsing through an old console game magazine and one review caught my eye.

They had reviewed Medal of Honor and its genre label was adventure.
The actual review text referred to it as “shooting adventure”. As it was used twice in two different places, it can’t be a mistake.

The magazine was published in the year 2000, so labelling something unexpected as adventure isn’t really a new thing. And I guess I can see where they were going with that, they probably meant that the game had more plot than most console shooters at that point had.

But even so, that felt wrong to me, even though I am more flexible with the term than many people are.

Adventure really is an easy catch all term. Mario goes on an adventure to save a princess. WW2 vet goes on a harrowing adventure in nazi germany. Solid snake has an adventure at shadow moses etc…

A term is just a term to me. Its the intentional sleight of hand that burns my biscuits. In the trailer, “if you enjoyed the sierra and lucas arts classics, you will love…” insert my game name here. 90 percent of what we usually get is a game with next to zero puzzles or literally a rip off of a much better executed game from the past.

The only time the term being mis used really bothers me is when things are mis-tagged on steam, or gog, bc then i have to wade through them.

Going back to RPGs though I’d still keep them in their own genre, like I said it’s an interesting conversation, but ultimately There are enough differences. However it would be a lot easier for me to recommend a turn-based RPG to an adventure game only fan, because while there is combat it is not reflex based or timing based, it is more puzzlely lol. I would make sure to choose a specific game because there are some turn based RPGs that still have an element of timing in them. But if I just blindly said if you like adventure games you would like RPGs, I’d be scared that they would pick Dark Souls or even the new Final Fantasy remake games where the combat is frantic. your constantly switching between your party in the new final fantasy, I can see that being very overwhelming to a new player, even though it still has a bit of turn based attributes in the Final Fantasy remake games.

Charophycean - 28 February 2024 07:09 AM

On the other hand, turn-based RPGs might be seen as less “adventure-y” than action RPGs because you usually control a whole party. Though really, this is probably only because there are so few party-based adventure games. I can only think of the Goblins series and maybe Unavowed. I wonder why there aren’t more? It seems to me to be a fertile ground for some much needed new approaches in the genre.

Unavowed was very interesting to me in the fact that once again it’s a game where I like the concept far more than the execution. Mostly because Dave is self-emittedly not very good at puzzle design. even though you can solve puzzles differently by the party members you brought, it felt very inconsequential. A game where problem solving is sort of a RPG element, but I think does it slightly better, is Whispers of a machine. With the augments you unlock for your main character, it changes how you solve certain puzzles. Neither example is perfect but I like one far better than the other.