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Return to Monkey island by Ron Gilbert : 19 september 2022
I’ve just finished chapter 2 and loving it. If everything up til now is a 4/10 then I’m excited to see what’s coming. But I’m also taking my time (maybe that’s the Secret™).
AKA Charo
I’ve just finished chapter 2 and loving it. If everything up til now is a 4/10 then I’m excited to see what’s coming. But I’m also taking my time (maybe that’s the Secret™).
I personally loved everything, but I have to admit… part 4 is something special, for sure. 
Yeah, that would be because the first chapters aren’t a 4/10 by any stretch lol. The start is more linear than the back end, and there’s a lot of returning locales & characters. But it’s nostalgia used intelligently to establish the themes of the story, far from cheap pandering, and is still filled with solid adventure gaming and fun moments. The fact that the game gradually ramps up in complexity over time is actually something a lot of adventure games could stand to learn from.
The initial part on LeChuck’s ghost ship is one of my favorites in the game. Especially everything with Gullet, hilarious character. From the gag where he repeatedly dirties your cabin, to him getting crushed by the ship, the wheel gag, etc, loved the interactions with him.
My friend gave it a 6.5 told me i would hate the meta ending
heh, basically the same score I gave it! As for the ending; I usually DESPISE meta endings (I thought the meta ending to Thimbleweed Park was garbage, for example - a big middle finger to the audience. A rug pull for the sake of a rug pull) but this is one of the few (perhaps only?) times where a meta ending has worked for me.
I do wonder if your friend truly grasped the meaning behind the ending? I only ask because as the credits rolled, one of my first thoughts was “there’s gonna be a lot of people who don’t actually understand the meaning behind this ending and what the actual implications are. They’re gonna misinterpret it and hate it, just like they did with Lost. So many people complain about the ending to Lost and say “it turns out they were in purgatory the whole time. The Island was purgatory. That’s it” and it’s just… urgh, no. That’s literally not what happened. You didn’t understand the ending at all. It annoys the writers of Lost just as much as it does me.
That your friend dismissed the ending as “meta” kinda suggest he/she didn’t really get the point of it. I mean, it is meta, but it’s kinda not. As with Lost, everything in the pirate world happened. Guybrush is a real person, living in pirate times. All the events of the games happened for real. The modern world we see at the end of the game is Guybrush being silly and inventing crazy endings to his own adventures when retelling them to his Children. He’s basically ending his story by saying “...and then it was the future and everything had been in the imagination of a flooring inspector
”.
Ah yes, the old “you didn’t get it” schtick. People don’t like something, its obviously their fault the idiots. It doesn’t matter if the Lost writers are frustrated, its universally the most hated season finale according to quite a few polls. I guess everyone who didn’t like it (including professional critics) just don’t get it.
He’s basically ending the story by saying “i have no clue how to end this, the expectation is too much, i’ll just do a meta ending and it can be whatever you want it to be!”
Yeah, that would be because the first chapters aren’t a 4/10 by any stretch lol.
They are to me. It was my own subjective rating. Are you telling me that I was wrong to not enjoy the first half of the game? I’m certainly not telling anyone else that they’re wrong for liking Chapters 1-3, nor would I deign to.
Ah yes, the old “you didn’t get it” schtick. People don’t like something, its obviously their fault the idiots. It doesn’t matter if the Lost writers are frustrated, its universally the most hated season finale according to quite a few polls. I guess everyone who didn’t like it (including professional critics) just don’t get it.
He’s basically ending the story by saying “i have no clue how to end this, the expectation is too much, i’ll just do a meta ending and it can be whatever you want it to be!”
No, that’s not what I was saying. People are free to hate the ending to Lost. It’s perfectly valid to not like how they ended the show. Just as it’s perfectly valid to like the ending, or to absolutely hate the ending with a fiery passion, or to be indifferent towards the ending. Personally, I’ve got plenty of beef with how the narrative of Lost was handled overall. However, people who say “they were in purgatory the whole time and nothing on the Island actually happened for real” are just flat out wrong and weren’t paying attention to the narrative. I half suspect that a good portion of those people didn’t properly watch the show and only watched sporadic episodes here or there and then just tuned into the final episode to see what the “answer” to the mystery was.
He’s basically ending the story by saying “i have no clue how to end this, the expectation is too much, i’ll just do a meta ending and it can be whatever you want it to be!”
But… that’s not how Lost ended at all. Curiously though, it is how Ron Gilbert ended Return to Monkey Island.
DOUBLE POST
EDIT: I may as well take this opportunity to say that I’m not sure why I keep invoking the ire of others on this forum. I suspect it may be my autism. I tend to be very direct when presenting my opinions and I think that can sometimes rub people up the wrong way. Believe me when I say that I’m not trying to get anybody’s goat up. It’s just how my brain is wired; to be candid, upfront and outspoken. I’m just being completely upfront and honest in how I reacted to playing a videogame. I’m sorry if that upsets people.
I think Ron just likes meta endings to his games because he repeatedly does it. He’s kind of a one trick pony just like Tim Burton. People used to love tim’s aesthetic style with movies but he repeated the same style so many times, that now his movies are just awful to me, cuz he can’t do anything different. It’s just rinse and repeat to diminishing returns.
Gene Wilder had one of my favorite quotes of all time when a reporter asked him if he was going to see Tim Burton’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, gene said something like no I like Johnny Depp as a person and he would hate to hate johnny after watching him in that movie lol.
Gene Wilder had one of my favorite quotes of all time when a reporter asked him if he was going to see Tim Burton’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, gene said something like no I like Johnny Depp as a person and he would hate to hate johnny after watching him in that movie lol.
Depp’s performance was bizarre. He looked and sounded like Michael Jackson, which was a bit unfortunate given that the character was essentially luring children to his candy house.
People are free to hate the ending to Lost. It’s perfectly valid to not like how they ended the show. Just as it’s perfectly valid to like the ending, or to absolutely hate the ending with a fiery passion, or to be indifferent towards the ending. Personally, I’ve got plenty of beef with how the narrative of Lost was handled overall. However, people who say “they were in purgatory the whole time and nothing on the Island actually happened for real” are just flat out wrong and weren’t paying attention to the narrative. I half suspect that a good portion of those people didn’t properly watch the show and only watched sporadic episodes here or there and then just tuned into the final episode to see what the “answer” to the mystery was.
It’s completely unrelated to MI, and I apologize for that. Just wanted to say that 100% agree with you on Lost, and I’m still very frustrated when people are saying that.
However, I do think the ending of Return is meta, if you consider the fact that it’s so open-ended.
I also saw a lot of interpretations that are fascinating, like Boybrush actually not existing except in Old Guybrush’s mind, he’s basically talking to himself when he was a kid because he still struggles to escape from his fantasies, and, in a way, if you choose to take the door back to the Monkey Head, you’re allowing Old Guybrush to get lost in his fantasies for good.
I don’t know if the game meant to say that of if it’s just a stretch, I do believe however that a lot of stuff are consciously open to interpretations and I love that. I think the game says enough for you to create your own story - I even think this is what the game is about. It’s smart, IMO.
They are to me. It was my own subjective rating. Are you telling me that I was wrong to not enjoy the first half of the game? I’m certainly not telling anyone else that they’re wrong for liking Chapters 1-3, nor would I deign to.
What? You can have your opinion and I can disagree with it. That’s not telling you what you’re allowed to like or dislike.
Yeah, that would be because the first chapters aren’t a 4/10 by any stretch lol.
They are to me. It was my own subjective rating. Are you telling me that I was wrong to not enjoy the first half of the game? I’m certainly not telling anyone else that they’re wrong for liking Chapters 1-3, nor would I deign to.
Ah yes, the old “you didn’t get it” schtick. People don’t like something, its obviously their fault the idiots. It doesn’t matter if the Lost writers are frustrated, its universally the most hated season finale according to quite a few polls. I guess everyone who didn’t like it (including professional critics) just don’t get it.
He’s basically ending the story by saying “i have no clue how to end this, the expectation is too much, i’ll just do a meta ending and it can be whatever you want it to be!”
No, that’s not what I was saying. People are free to hate the ending to Lost. It’s perfectly valid to not like how they ended the show. Just as it’s perfectly valid to like the ending, or to absolutely hate the ending with a fiery passion, or to be indifferent towards the ending. Personally, I’ve got plenty of beef with how the narrative of Lost was handled overall. However, people who say “they were in purgatory the whole time and nothing on the Island actually happened for real” are just flat out wrong and weren’t paying attention to the narrative. I half suspect that a good portion of those people didn’t properly watch the show and only watched sporadic episodes here or there and then just tuned into the final episode to see what the “answer” to the mystery was.
He’s basically ending the story by saying “i have no clue how to end this, the expectation is too much, i’ll just do a meta ending and it can be whatever you want it to be!”
But… that’s not how Lost ended at all. Curiously though, it is how Ron Gilbert ended Return to Monkey Island.
I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding. My comment on Lost was just about the writers being frustrated, not the actual content of the ending. Its just that if you cannot effectively convey your idea, that’s not the audiences problem.
My comment about the ending was only regarding Return, which in my opinion is a lazy, badly timed and frankly insulting.
I don’t know if the game meant to say that of if it’s just a stretch, I do believe however that a lot of stuff are consciously open to interpretations and I love that. I think the game says enough for you to create your own story - I even think this is what the game is about. It’s smart, IMO.
I completely disagree. All the MI games are linear games. You have no-to-minimal (if you count some dialogue choices) input on the story. This isn’t exactly an RPG. The story was and is rather simple. Sure, we’re experiencing the story, but at the end of the day, it isn’t us that’s writing it, its Ron. A linear story doesn’t leave much to interpret. Therefore i find it very lazy to do the “Choose your ending” when you had no impact on the story whatsoever until now. It wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for the ton of loose ends that remained. But it doesn’t matter! You can fill in the blanks! Extremely poor in my opinion.
Let’s take Elaine for example, a very boring and sidelined character in this part, following Guybrush’ trail of destruction and suffering through the game. What was the point of that? That he’s a sociopath that will do anything to get what he wants? Ron could have given us an ending and then made his meta statement. Here it just looks like he chickened out and wanted to please everybody.
I don’t really understand the linear part, though, because it’s clearly not at the end. It’s not because it’s not throughout the game that it can’t be when you finish it.
It’s like a book - I’m using this example because it’s my job. A book is usually linear, if we don’t count the “Choose your own adventure Books”, but it’s not because it is that you can’t have endings or themes that are open to interpretations.
Same things with movies.
Now, I understand that you don’t like it, but I think you’re making up rules about how a story should be written or interpreted. Linearity doesn’t imply a lack of deepness or interpretations.
The movie Total Recall, for example… It’s a movie. It’s linear. You can’t do anything about what’s happening since you are just watching it. However, the last scene implies that there are two ways to interpret the whole movie. One is not more correct than the other, it depends how what you want the movie to be. And this is, at least for me, fascinating.
Now, I understand if it comes out at as lazy to you, and again, you’re allowed to dislike it. I just don’t think your argument makes a lot of sense.
I think you guys are in danger of getting lost in wrongly defined words here.
What is implied here is probably branching storylines and some level of interactivity.
Linear or non-linear narrative is a different thing.
Even though the movie is overhyped (much like all Nolan’s stuff), Memento is a great example of a non-linear narrative.
Obviously it’s not at all interactive or have any branching options, but very non-linear.
I agree, and therefore, I don’t think Return to Monkey Island being a linear game makes it a linear experience. The narrative is meta, non-linear, as well as opened to interpretations.
It’s not because it’s a P&C adventure game that goes in one direction with no choices except at the end that it makes the story linear.
This is where I completely disagree.
Now, is it a good or a bad thing? If people hate it, this, I understand. I know some people don’t like this at all, and I respect it. I love it, but I know it’s not for everyone.
I think you guys are in danger of getting lost in wrongly defined words here.
What is implied here is probably branching storylines and some level of interactivity.
Linear or non-linear narrative is a different thing.Even though the movie is overhyped (much like all Nolan’s stuff), Memento is a great example of a non-linear narrative.
Obviously it’s not at all interactive or have any branching options, but very non-linear.
man every time I read your stuff I agree with you more and more. Christopher Nolan is way overhyped especially the Dark Knight. Heath Ledger saves that movie from being utterly terrible. plot holes everywhere, they short Change Harvey Dent AKA Two-Face and Christian Bale and Maggie Gyllenhaal have so little chemistry it is in the negative range. The only reason that movie gets praised is because of heath ledger as the joker. it is so generic past that, what a huge step down from Batman Begins
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